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I used a few and recently sold a RC50 because somehow not intuitive interface. Bottom line is, unless you want to become a specialist loop artist, you might want to chose something very simple that makes it easy to take a few chords and a bassline for fun, when you are in the mood. The more sophisticated stuff will eventually dwell in the drawer.
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02-28-2014 04:12 AM
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There are a lot of things you can do with a looper, but the way I use mine is with backing tracks from ralphpatt.com. Whatever dozen tunes I am working on at any particular time. Best learning tool ever.
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I too am a fan of Boss pedals, but I do not recommend the Boss RC-2, not intuitive, I rarely use it, my $.02
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funny, i never thought id jump into using a looper, but got one recently so i could fill up the sound a little and do some single note soloing on my solo or duo gigs. I took it to a gig for the first time a couple weeks ago and had a few train wrecks...okay more than a few, BUT I am finding it to be a viable addition to the rig for occasional use.
I bought a used Boomerang III because of the ability to have an intro comp, then a verse, a chorus, and a bridge, and switch in real time between any of those easily on the fly. It has 4 independent loops in serial mode which is very cool. I really just need more practice to be able to recover from mistakes on the fly, such as vocalist entering at the wrong time, etc...
really love the boomerang and it is much smaller than i expected from the pictures, so fits in my gig bag pouch easily..Last edited by mikeSF; 02-28-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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The looper you want depends on how you are going to use it -practice and/or gigging.
One button loopers suck for gigs IMO. You dont want to be doing double button presses and button holds on gigs.
I made a decision early on to always record the backing live on gigs. Playing to a previously recorded loop on a gig is cheesy IMO.
Another argument against loopers with memory is that recording the backing track every time gets you better at it. I think a lot of us are guilty of practicing leads too much compared to practicing rhythm playing. I've used Boomerangs since 1997 and use a 'Rang III, but every looper does different, cool things.
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Not for nuthin', but reading the experiences of those using loopers regularly does not fan my ardor to try one much.
And I'm nonplussed by that argument that playing to pre-recorded backing tracks of your own production is cheesy by comparison with generating a backing track live. After all, if you are looping you have to create the 'static' backing track, which must take a several measures. Secondly, you must have the timing and button pushing down right or your static loop recorded "live" will be off tempo or glitchy. Third, the loop recorded "live" is no more interactive with the musician than a pre-recorded backing track, which can contain rhythmic and harmonic development from the first measure and down beat. It is the "live" musician who interacts, not the other way around. And frankly, an arrangement is only as 'cheesy' as the musician who is playing or composing it. True, nothing replaces real flesh and blood musicians, but then again, computers and loopers don't have "idiosyncrasies" and other issues. As long as the batteries are fresh.
Jay
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Any other opinions on that one knob/one switch jamman?
This will not be used for live performance, just teaching/practicing.
I'm actually probably going to buy both and return the one I don't like.
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I have the ditto. I use it for practice only. one button, one dial. Works great and its true-bypass ensures my live guitar signal never passes through an IC so I know its not affecting my signal.
If you want high quality, true-bypass, and sturdy, but bare bones simplicity, this is it. If you want flexibility, its not.
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There are a lot of ways to do it, I think. The newer ones come with software to make it easy.
Originally Posted by mikeSF
I download the track from the Internet, fire up adobe audition, mute the piano track, and save it mono (so its just bass and drums) to the SD card. Like I said, the current ones come with software that probably makes it easier.
So its like having a drummer and bass player who play in the standard keys at pro tempos, and a "playback booth" if I want to hear what you just played, all controlled by a foot switch. Take a tricky lick like the A Train lick. You work out a fingering, think you have it nailed, try it live and usually stumble pretty badly. Do the same thing with a looper, and you just stop the track and try it again and again until it's flawless. Also, you sort of know that you overplay and use too many cliches, but you *really* know it if you listen to playback on a looper. It is not the same thing as recording yourself with a computer or tape deck; much more effortless. Of course, 90% of the time, I don't record myself at all; I just jam.
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BOSS RC20-XL used will be a good choice for teaching, and more
I use it to practice soloing over a chord progression I recorded first
If I work on several pieces, I can save up to 11 loops (or 11 students in your case)
It's easy to use if you practice it once you have understood how it works
You can find some used for cheap.
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I bought a used JamMan stereo looper here on the forum not long ago. I already had the identical JamMan I'd bought on feebay a year ago, that I paid $220 for. I don't need a pair of 'em. You're welcome to the used one for what I have into it. PM if you're interested. It's 1/3 of what I paid for the new one. Good luck.
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I can see why loopers with more features can be attractive to some, but for me, my original Ditto is all I need for practicing. It does only one thing, but it's enough for me. I like its simplicity and how easy it is to use.
I've tried and owned other loopers that do a lot more. I simply didn't need the extra features, their interface confused me, and I ended up not using them until I finally sold them again.
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My new Ditto X2 arrived yesterday. I really like this looper. I started my looping days with an original boomerang and since then, I couldn't get used to any single-switch loopers for live performance. A two-switch looper allows you to stop the loop instantly and also clear it with the stop button. I have only had a short time to try it out, but so far the new Ditto X2 seems perfect for live, on-the-fly looping. It's well made, has true bypass, 5 minutes of recording time and the right switch configuration for me. It's also stereo if that appeals to you. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
Keith
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i own a boss rc3 looper...BUT sprung for the Boss fs6 footswitch..sold separately that allows for single pedal operation ... and eliminates double clicks to stop loop and allows other features too which eliminates much fidling .and it's exactly what i was looking for.... also to use for teaching and my own self to improve on my own improv skills .... but not used it at gigs yet .... but who knows
anyway the positives of the RC3 is the 3 hours of stereo looping not the 16min from the RC2 ...and i being able to store 99 patch's...and lots of useful features ...and above all it took me 20 min or less to get my first loops going
and i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to new technology ....
BUT i would say spend the extra money on the footswitch (bossFS6) cos it makes life so much easier oh and the power adaptor too is sold separately ....
i am very happy with function and features .... and so far it's bullet proof and can also in a pinch run off batteriesLast edited by Keira Witherkay; 03-16-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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I have a Boss 20xl and use it for practicing but the Jamman looks good also. I think a lot depends on how you're going to use it. You state that you'll use it for teaching but I wasn't sure how you were going to put it into use.
I think you end up paying more for channels/memory on these things. Two features that I find useful just for practicing is the auto start and auto quantize. The auto start allows you to start the loop with the first note so you don't waste time trying to coordinate with timer of the looper. The auto quantize does basically the same thing at the end of the loop by determining the bar length of your playing and ending the bar where it should end as opposed to exactly when your foot steps on the pedal. These prevent you from getting time changes getting into and out of the loop. It's nice if you're working on solo ideas over changes that you've recorded for a tune so there's no " skip " in the sound ( for those who remember albums )
I don't know if you use a smart phone of any type but there must be apps that could do this, integrated with a foot switch that would save some cost and probably give more features overall along with allowing you to save many more loops if this is what you're looking to do.
I'd be curious to hear your ideas on how you were going to use it teaching?
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I had the single Boss Loop pedal and the damn thing went mental on me so had to throw it in the bin.
I was going to go out tomorrow and buy the Ditto, but now I'm not sure. I only really want it to practice single line a nd chord stuff. Yes you record the bass movement then practice your chords/inversions etc onto of that. You don't always have to use them for soloing.
So for the price I paid and the rate it failed I would never recommend the Boss, but hey I'm sure my experience is insignificant. I just think they have a weak cpu or gpu and your saved stuff will start disappearing, re organising itself or simply start playing without your prompting.
So now I'm scratching my head. Don't really want to spend over £100 on a looper (money is tight right now).
So the Ditto will probably get a look in. Tc stuff is usually pretty good, if not over praised a little and its £80 new with no thrills. Although I did like being able to store my loops in the boss, till that went hideously wrong.
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I'm trying out a Ditto X2 right now. I was able to get a nice loop first time, just playing blues changes to practice over.
Easy to use. It may stick around.
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Ok, got a Jamman solo and Express at my house this week...I'll keep one. Right now, I gotta tell ya, for my purposes the Express is gonna be hard to beat--brain dead simple. But I've only had an hour or so to play with them. Both seem to be really well made and do what they're supposed to do.
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Recently I got the Boss RC3 and just started messing around with it. I am liking it a lot.
Using it as a practicing and learning tool so cannot comment on live gigging.
Even though it has extra features compared to the Ditto I think you can use it in the same way if you want. I guess all loopers can be simple record and playback devices if you ignore the extra features.
As a leaning tool I like the patch saving as you can keep a recording and copy a version of it into another patch to work with. Plus you can move onto another exercise all together and return to revisit old projects later.
Nice to have some drums and metronome. The criticism of drum patches being limited doesn't worry me as the tap tempo helps adjust the beat time which is enough for my learning purposes.
Unfortunately most of the time I am playing late so have to use headphones.
So I am thinking of getting a multi effects to use with the RC3 for quick setup and less clutter (power wires and cables).
The Digitech Rp360 has headphones, amp simulation and 3 on/off stomp switches for effects plus an aux in.
The looper on the RP360 doesn't support drum / metronome so I thought if I could output to the RC3 and then go back into the Aux in of the RP360 I could have a simple setup for my purposes.
However, I think that the live playing will double up as both units will be sounding.
Has anyone tried using a lopper with just a multi effects.
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FWIW, I had a Jamman when I was a blues hack but I couldn't get along with it...too frustrating to use. I sold it and never tried a looper again. It gets rave reviews but I didn't find it user friendly. I think for a looper "ease of use" is paramount. Disclaimer: I'm kind of a luddite and I have very little patience with tech.
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I have the RC-3 and I use it with a Line 6 HD unit and a Roland Guitar Synth (piano or organ chords as backing tracks), but mostly for practice I have been using the iReal Book application which can be looped easily for a few bars instead of the whole progression. So I would open the Rhythm Changes practice progression for instance and practice on overlapping sections of it.
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I've not used these specific pedals but use the rc20xl with another boss multieffect pedal through an amp without issue but have not tried without the amp. I just use the efx send and return lines for the looper with guitar to efx pedal to input line. Can you just use the headphones through the amp? Originally Posted by theot71
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Keith you have to be cautious when connecting things up.
I would only plug headphones into a dedicated headphone socket. Some manufacturers even state the impedance of the headphones which would work best with their product.
I do have a yamaha amp with headphones, the manual says that the headphones sound the output of the preamp stage and disengages the power amp making the amp speaker silent.
I thought if I connect the RC3 into the amp's effects loop (out/in), I could layer different preamp tracks onto the RC3, practice rhythm and lead, maybe I will learn how to use scales and modes ( a miracle I am waiting for ).
Unfortunately, the amp's effect loop in goes straight to the power amp section, so using headphones will only grab the preamp signal loosing the RC3 feed ( power amp disengaged ).
Off course this should be ok when using the amp without headphones but I think the drums and backing tracks would not sound as good as the headphones.
So it's not just a matter of using headphones but how the signal is bused and mixed.
I guess what I want is a cheap multi effects unit that can some how send the signal to the RC3 and receive it back to play via headphones, without doubling up the track being recorded.
Mixer territory.
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I actually hadn't used headphones in this setup with the amp so I didn't realize that. I knew the headphones would silence the speaker but I'll have to try the phones in the setup to see if I get the looper through. Thanks
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Thread resurrection:
I just got the inexpensive Ditto today. Never had a looper pedal before. I took the plunge because I wanted to just lay down a single backing idea on the spot and practice soloing over it. It's boring to another person to have me woodshed ideas while they just play changes or whatever.
The Ditto is dead simple. The instructions are so simple that they actually fit on a single sheet in the tiny box that the pedal comes in--great!
I can already tell that a looper pedal is LONG overdue for me. I threw down a simple five-chord blues and started 'shedding over it. I could tell after a few choruses that my ideas clarified and sounded less "noodley."
Of course, a blues is not much of a test. Still, I can tell that my practice sessions are going to be time better spent.
D'OH!
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