The best 12" guitar speaker for jazz???

**docdosco** · 07-03-2015, 12:03 AM

Hi all,

I recently bought a used and beat up little Fender Sidekick 25 (with a 10" speaker) at Sam Ash for $49. Something intrigued me about it, dirty pots, sticky duct tape, broken feet and all.

When I got it to my tech's place and we cleaned the cabinet and sprayed the pots, we discovered that it has a vintage JBL D110F in it. The sales guys and even myself missed that in the store. So it's a very small 1991 Fender solid state amp with a $250 speaker. It sounds killer for jazz, as you might imagine. I was very pleased with my purchase!

So, I found an 85 watt Fender Sidekick Switcher (open back) of the same era and bought it cheap online. It seems it may provide me with the same options as the Sidekick 25 only with slightly more kick (Sidekick.... ha!) I don't know if I can find a vintage JBL D120F speaker so I am looking around for options.

Anyone have a suggestion for a high quality clean and warm sounding 12" speaker suitable for jazz with a solid state amp and an archtop guitar? I had bought a Celestion G12H-80 a few years back an put in a 60 watt valve tube amp. It sounded dreadful. It was a pricey speaker, but it was nasty. It sounded like a tin can. I went back to the stock Jensen and left it that way.

So, I am interested in a fat, warm 12" guitar speaker that has no urges to overdrive. I will probably run a mic through it also, so a good 12" PA speaker may do the trick. So far the Eminence Cannibas Rex looks good.....

Suggestions? Comments?

Doc Dosco

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-03-2015, 12:27 AM

Subscribed!

But I think there are a couple variables here:

1. Wattage. Small amps on one side versus some pretty big numbers from class D amps on the other side.

2. Bright to dark continuum.

and others...

**docdosco** · 07-03-2015, 12:50 AM

Kelowna? My friend Scott McKee is guitar player and lives in Kelowna.

Yes. I think I tried to put a high energy guitar speaker in a small tube amp before and paid the price. The speaker certainly has to match the electronics.

Doc Dosco
Peerless Guitars

**r_cc_c** · 07-03-2015, 01:47 AM

weber made JBL clone

Ceramic California 10
Ceramic California 12

I am currently using Eminence Delta 12A
I also has an old polytone amp which I am using as a cab with a 12 inch.
The polytone sound fatter than the eminence.
The polytone is in a sealed cabinet.
The Eminence Delta 12A is in a dual ported cabinet.
Not sure how they would sound in an open back cabinet.

**boatheelmusic** · 07-03-2015, 06:22 AM

I replaced the stock speaker in my Hot Rod Deluxe with the Cannabis Rex, and am very happy with it.

**TheGrandWazoo** · 07-03-2015, 06:35 AM

I love this particular 12", the G12C/S from Warehouse.

https://wgs4.com/12-g12cs-75-watts

It is basically a Jensen C12n with a smooth cone and a darkened tone. The cone rolls off the highs while keeping that nice American/Fender style tone. Or you could follow everyone else on this site and just get the Eminence.

The best 12" guitar speaker for jazz???-2632_a_trans-jpg

The best 12" guitar speaker for jazz???-2632_a_trans-jpg

The best 12" guitar speaker for jazz???-2632_b_trans_0-jpg

**monkmiles** · 07-03-2015, 09:08 AM

Cannabis Rex is a great one. But I forget it's power rating, can it handle 85 watts from the sideman 85? The Eminence Lil Texas is a great high power, light weight speaker otherwise.

**mad dog** · 07-03-2015, 10:07 AM

Cannabis Rex is 50 watts. Probably well under-rated, but could be a risk. The WGS G12C is excellent. 75 watts. More highs I think than the WGS G12C/S. It's not the loudest of the bunch, but is the best jensen ceramic like speaker I've heard.

The Weber Cali would be a bit louder. A great speaker too, not much like a JBL, as I've so often heard. It's warmer. I've had it with paper domes and aluminum. Both excellent. Paper dome would be my choice for jazz. The Cali is 80 watts. I'd probably try the Cali first in your amp.
MD

**spiral** · 07-03-2015, 11:31 AM

In my personal—and limited—experiments with speakers, the ceramics I've had tend to have much more bass, bass that I don't necessarily want on the neck of a big bodied guitar. I've had really good luck with Jensen style alnico speakers. I find that they have lots of clarity without being harsh and the low end is very tight. It could just be the types of speakers are of similar design.

My favorites in Fender type BF amps are the Jensen P12Q (in my Sportsman), and the Weber 12A150 (in my DR).

You might want to check out this thread too:
Jensen P12N Alnico speaker

**Tom Karol** · 07-03-2015, 12:00 PM

I'm a big fan of the Weber California (ceramic, paper dome).
I also have to agree that it doesn't sound all that much like a JBL.
Like Mad Dog said above, it's warmer, but the bottom end is nice and tight and the top end attack is fat but with some noticeable sparkle to it. Better than average efficiency, too.

**docdosco** · 07-03-2015, 12:59 PM

These answers help. I love the JBL D110F. It like the bright clean sound for the little Sidekick 25, and when I toss a mic it sounds great on channel 2 with the guitar volume / tone settings. The Sidekick 85 has 2 channels with separate volume and tone. But that same clean, clear, heavenly high end JBL tone is what I want. The Weber may be close and I'll check out some of the other suggestions. Clean and warm without muddy. However, I play a carved spruce top guitar, so I have a fat, thick, warm tone going in (or so I think I have). Therefore super clean separation and that certain 'depth and high quality top end' with no mucky overtones that the JLB has is what I want. Please Santa.....

Doc Dosco
Peerless Guitars

**yebdox** · 07-03-2015, 01:14 PM

I haven't enjoyed the Weber Cali's, though I've tried them a few times. They are a bit on the bright side for my ears, but lots of folks think they are great.

I do love, however, the ceramic EV SRO I have in a semi-open backed 1x12 Mather cab. Extremely full, clear, rated at 150 watts I think (? - don't recall, but can handle anything.) May or may not fit in some combo cabs. Extremely heavy, needs a strong baffle, but it's my favorite speaker right now. I'm crazy enough to think about finding 2 more and putting them in a 2 x 12. (back to the weight room for me.)

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-03-2015, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by yebdox

I haven't enjoyed the Weber Cali's, though I've tried them a few times. They are a bit on the bright side for my ears, but lots of folks think they are great.

I do love, however, the ceramic EV SRO I have in a semi-open backed 1x12 Mather cab. Extremely full, clear, rated at 150 watts I think (? - don't recall, but can handle anything.) May or may not fit in some combo cabs. Extremely heavy, needs a strong baffle, but it's my favorite speaker right now. I'm crazy enough to think about finding 2 more and putting them in a 2 x 12. (back to the weight room for me.)

Finally, become one of those crazy people who run amps in stereo -- say a SS and a tube amp at the same time, like a Twin Reverb and a JC-120.

**boatheelmusic** · 07-03-2015, 01:42 PM

Remember that the Cannabis Rex is tres efficient, and I can't possibly imagine burning one out playing jazz through a Sideman. The tone is sublime, and that's why you're doing this, I guess.

**Greentone** · 07-03-2015, 02:10 PM

Back in the day, a Twin Reverb with two EV SRO speakers was an unbelievable amp. It may have been the loudest two-speaker amplifier on the planet, but I never played _that_ loud. After all, whose bass player could keep up with that much sound? Dialed back (volume on 2), the EV SRO-equipped Twin was primo for _every_ kind of music.

The old SRO may be the greatest speaker of all time...NO offense to the venerable Jensen P12n or the JBL D120.

**Cunamara** · 07-03-2015, 02:15 PM

I've got a silverface ca. 1972 Pro Reverb with two JBLs in it- it weighs about 80 lbs and I can't carry the darned thing out to the car any more. I'd like to find a good neo speaker for it to reduce the weight so that I could do something with it other than adorning the living room. Those JBL magnets are HUGE. Almost all the interwebs comments on various fora tend to be down on the tonal qualities of neo speakers- are there any that are good for jazz?

**docdosco** · 07-03-2015, 02:18 PM

So many options now. Thanks everyone. I'll check each suggestion out thoroughly.

First, bright is good for me (Thanks yebdox). Tinny, of course, isn't. I think the Alnico might be why I like the D110F. It has a certain character in the high end that is delicious. I am used to playing a 60 watt valve tube amp flat, generally with no EQ. (I have been a confirmed tube guy until I found this little Sidekick 25 Fender solid state gem)

My tube amp has a stock Jensen speaker in it, but the speaker is pretty neutral and doesn't color the sound. It does break up really nice, although that is something I would rarely need. The trick for me is to get that God-like, angelic, sweet high end with no brittle, piercing, edgy, nasty overtones. If only Saint Peter made a guitar speaker.....

Doc Dosco
Peerless Guitars

**jbernstein91** · 07-03-2015, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by boatheelmusic

Remember that the Cannabis Rex is tres efficient, and I can't possibly imagine burning one out playing jazz through a Sideman. The tone is sublime, and that's why you're doing this, I guess.

I put a Cannabis Rex in a Blues Junior I own, and besides sounding really nice, it is VERY loud.

**yebdox** · 07-03-2015, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Back in the day, a Twin Reverb with two EV SRO speakers was an unbelievable amp. It may have been the loudest two-speaker amplifier on the planet, but I never played _that_ loud. After all, whose bass player could keep up with that much sound? Dialed back (volume on 2), the EV SRO-equipped Twin was primo for _every_ kind of music.

The old SRO may be the greatest speaker of all time...NO offense to the venerable Jensen P12n or the JBL D120.

I actually have a twin that I'm thinking about doing that to. Right now, it's got Celestion 12-65s, which aren't my fave for jazz (actually, I'm not sure why they are popular - I got them because Landau and Ford like them, but can't say they blow my skirt up.). So, let me calculate the weight factor and I will get back to you on that!

**Greentone** · 07-03-2015, 02:38 PM

Right now, if you want to swap speakers for your JBL D120f speakers in your vintage Twin Reverb, try finding a pair of Weber neo-12 speakers. I am using the neo-10 in an amp I built to take the place of a D110...it is an _excellent_ speaker for that application.

Just be sure to keep the JBLs boxed up for replacement in the amp should you decide to sell it. It will bring extra bucks. Sooner or later the Twin Reverb is going to start bringing the proper coin that it should. Right now, everyone correctly wants the smaller Fenders--easier to carry. However, soon enough people are going to realize that those hand-wired beasts represent the greatest era of professional guitar amp building of all time. The Twin Reverbs in good shape are going to appreciate handily in value.

It's one of the top two or three greatest jazz amps ever. Herb Ellis told me it was THE greatest jazz amp, but he didn't want to carry it.

**yebdox** · 07-03-2015, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

It's one of the top two or three greatest jazz amps ever. Herb Ellis told me it was THE greatest jazz amp, but he didn't want to carry it.

He was right on both counts! Smart man, that Herb.

**Tom Karol** · 07-03-2015, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Back in the day, a Twin Reverb with two EV SRO speakers was an unbelievable amp. It may have been the loudest two-speaker amplifier on the planet, but I never played _that_ loud. After all, whose bass player could keep up with that much sound? Dialed back (volume on 2), the EV SRO-equipped Twin was primo for _every_ kind of music.

The old SRO may be the greatest speaker of all time...NO offense to the venerable Jensen P12n or the JBL D120.

Yup, I had a Twin Reverb with SRO's back in the day too - 90 pounds of awesome sound!

**docdosco** · 07-03-2015, 04:32 PM

Mad Dog,

Bingo.... I think the Weber Cali w/aluminum may be the ticket. I want to jam a mic through it too so I want super clean with great high end. A kind of Fishman Artist all in one deal. Only the guitar side will sound waaaaaay better than Fishman with Fender electronics and the killer speaker. I found the Fishman sounded boxy and nasal for guitar. Didn't do a thing for me. (and it cost too much!)

Doc Dosco
Peerless Guitars

**marcwhy** · 07-03-2015, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by docdosco

So many options now. Thanks everyone. I'll check each suggestion out thoroughly.

First, bright is good for me (Thanks yebdox). Tinny, of course, isn't. I think the Alnico might be why I like the D110F. It has a certain character in the high end that is delicious. I am used to playing a 60 watt valve tube amp flat, generally with no EQ. (I have been a confirmed tube guy until I found this little Sidekick 25 Fender solid state gem)

My tube amp has a stock Jensen speaker in it, but the speaker is pretty neutral and doesn't color the sound. It does break up really nice, although that is something I would rarely need. The trick for me is to get that God-like, angelic, sweet high end with no brittle, piercing, edgy, nasty overtones. If only Saint Peter made a guitar speaker.....

Doc Dosco
Peerless Guitars

Hey Doc,
Also look into Speakers | Product Categories | Jupiter Condenser They're actually made by WGS, to Jupiter's specs. I have the 12LC, and I'm "all-tube," too! It's probably more on the "brighter" side, rather than "darker," but it's definitely not tinny. I hear the 12 alnico is really nice! [and like most alnicos, twice the price!]

Marc

**BMW 1600** · 07-03-2015, 07:58 PM

The creator of the JBL D130F, Harvey Gerst, recommends the D123 for 12-inch guitar use. I've been saving one just for such an amp, but haven't tried it.

http://www.recordingchannel.com/q-fo...bl-212929.html