Buying a Gibson ES-175

**fender** · 02-20-2013, 12:22 PM

Finally I've decided to buy a jazz box - Gibson ES 175.
Yesterday tried (for the first time) one in store, was blown away from the sound (that's the tone I was searching for), but there is one problem. The neck seemed to be twisted. Bow (or relief) on bass string side was bigger than in thin E side. That's when looking from body to the end of neck and opposite. The finish of guitar was not what you expect for 3500$. Glue/paint was on neck binding and other things. Finish wouldn't be a problem, bet the neck...

And there is no other guitar in other stores (Calgary).
Is it better idea to buy used one in Ebay cheaper or maybe new in online store? But there is the same risk - get bad one...

**rpguitar** · 02-20-2013, 01:10 PM

There are certain guitars I would never buy brand new in 2013, and an ES-175 is one of them. So is an ES-335. in fact, almost any Gibson or Fender is... but I digress.

A used 175 is a commonly found thing. And a used guitar has typically been played, adjusted, and had its issues (if any) sorted out. Of course, there is risk. A used guitar might also have an issue that keeps it from being loved, and it passes from owner to owner, each time purported as being in "excellent" condition. And no wonder: It never gets played, so it stays looking nice!

So if I was looking for a 175, I'd hit Ebay and Craigslist. But I'd see if return policies could be found, and I'd ask lots of questions. As you have found, a brand new one can be no less subject to issues, so it's hardly a magic bullet. And the price is sky high on the new ones.

**Jazz_175** · 02-20-2013, 01:28 PM

Did you report to the people working in the music shop about the neck issue that you noticed?

**Hammertone** · 02-20-2013, 02:02 PM

One really good place to look would be in the for sale section of this forum. There are currently several ES-175 gutars for sale there, even a couple in Canada, which would allow you to pay for the instrument using Interac Electronic Money Transfer (which costs $1), avoid any cross-border costs, and so forth.

As well, this is a small specialized forum - I think the members here are pre-qualified in a way that is a bit different and better from the world of ebay. My guess is that the guitars listed are all accurately described.

Here are the Gibson Es-175 guitars for sale on this forum right now:

1952 ES-175 - 1 P-90 pickup - $2,000 - in Canada
1953 ES-175 - 2 P-90 pickups - $3,800 - in US
1957 ES-175 - 1 replaced humbucking pickup - 3500 euros (@$4,680) - in Italy
1961 ES-175 - 2 replaced humbucking pickups $2,200 - in Canada
1961 ES-175 - 2 original PAF humbucking pickps - $8,000 - Canada
1990 ES-175 - 2 humbucking pickups - 2700 euros (@$3,612) - in France

Hmmmmmmm????

**SamBooka** · 02-20-2013, 02:30 PM

if you are not opposed to buying online check out the 12th Fret in Toronto.

I have played a few new Gibsons (es175s included) that have had setup and fit/finish issues so unless you REALLY want a NEW GIBSON I would suggest you hold off. If you really want a NEW GUITAR there are better bets too.

EDIT: http://www.12fret.com/content/2013/0...-es-175d-1965/

**alanh** · 02-20-2013, 03:49 PM

How about trying a Heritage 575. or a 550 .There is a 550 on here for $1650 which looks good value,and loads of love for Heritage guitars in general from members including me.

Alan

**2bornot2bop** · 02-20-2013, 04:04 PM

I buy used 99.9% of the time. Be selective who you buy from, ask lots of questions. There is a positive archtop community out there most of which will advertise as it is. Buying on eBay has advantages in that there are lots of archtops, especially ES175's, that are at excellent more competitive prices. You just might locate an as new '175 for $2300-$2500. I've seen several of them on the Gear page of late that appeared mint close to that price. The plus side to buying on eBay is your purchase is covered via their buyer protection through paypal. if the guitar is not right or as advertised you're protected. Use an AMEX or VISA for payment via paypal and now you're double protected. That's the only way to buy anything used.

**GNAPPI** · 02-20-2013, 07:35 PM

I agree on buying used. I bought my 1995 ES175 in excellent condition for ~$1800 US and couldn't be happier (well see below for details) . However... I also would not count out a Heritage H575, I think it's equal to and better than a 175 in some respects.

My 575 was bought locally for ~ FAR less (nearly half) than the 175, and plays as well as sounds equal to the 175. As a matter of fact, the neck Schaller on the 575 is so good I bought one for my 175 to install some day.

So keep your ear to the ground and see if you can try a 575 out, I think like many here you'll find that they are an excellent value and take a back seat to no Gibson in its class.

**Encinitastubes** · 02-20-2013, 11:41 PM

My experience with 175s is that they vary a lot. I like the big '59ish necks, but after that they thinned out quite a bit. I'm tempted to buy on-line, but am always worried that I'll receive a beautiful guitar that just doesn't feel right.

**Hammertone** · 02-21-2013, 01:02 AM

I've had pretty good luck with older post-war Gibsons - the '49 ES-5, '52 ES-175 and '61 ES-175 I'm selling on this forum are superb playing guitars. I have had great luck with a variety of really nice more recent Gibsons as well.
I guess YMMV.

I've bought from and sold guitars to forum members as well and those transactions have gone very well - I think the members here value the community and prefer to maintain good standing and good reputations. I have a Gibson 2004 L-7C that caused some anxiety to its former owner but in the end turned out to be a wonderful instrument.

**floatingpickup** · 02-21-2013, 12:46 PM

I have owned many ES-175's and have had good luck with all of the ones I bought, regardless of the era (including recent ones). They aren't all the same though, so it is always best to be able to try before you buy.

If you want to buy a new one, you should be able try several and pick out one that suits you. I am not familiar with the local dealers in Calgary, but I checked the net and I see that Long and McQuade has three locations there. They are not only Canada's largest music store chain and a Gibson dealer, but they (Yorkville Sound) are also the distributor for Gibson for all of Canada. I would expect you could try a few different ES-175's right there in your home town at the L&M locations. I have purchased many guitars from L&M and was very happy.

Someone else also mentioned Twelfth Fret in Toronto. They are great too and they often have some very nice vintage pieces. I have also dealt with them a number of times and was very satisfied every time. Unfortunately, their location is not as convenient for you, but they know guitars and you shouldn't get any surprises if you buy one from them.

I notice a few for sale privately on this forum that are also located in Canada, and people on this forum are part of a "community" of knowledgeable players, which should help. If you were to buy a guitar that is located outside of Canada, be aware that you will incur additional costs upon importation. I have done that a number of times and it worked out fine, but you need to be prepared for the extra costs when you make that decision. Just my thoughts. Hope this helps.
Keith

**Chimera1to1** · 02-21-2013, 01:34 PM

we should test local Gibsons and set up a serial number review thread on the forum. That way you would never be buying blind over the web. If all guitars were peer reviewed then that would highlight weak reviewers, so you would know who to trust......save on a lot of nasty surprises

**floatingpickup** · 02-21-2013, 01:44 PM

That would be fine if we all had the same level of experience and expertise, we all played exactly the same, had the same physical make up, liked exactly the same sound/feel/appearance, and everyone was honest and unbiased. But, fortunately, we're all different.

**Chimera1to1** · 02-23-2013, 06:56 AM

Yes I absolutely agree. But if a single guitar is reviewed by multiple reviewers then the averaging process will reveal wayward reviewers.

I suppose if it were to be tried then it would have to be quantitative not qualitative results.

ie. Neck free from twist. All electrics work as they should etc. The other option than some orchestral musicians use to back up their salaries is to visit instrument stores, play, say, all the saxaphones and buy then best one and sell it on with a small mark up. That's not so easy with jazz guitars because there's much less demand

**fender** · 02-25-2013, 01:32 AM

Wow, thank you very much for all the answers! I really appreciate that!

That's what I thought - if I'd by guitar from here, I could be pretty sure, that the guitar is good.
And now I have to check other places too. Like Long and McQuade too here locally.

I didn't tell anything in store about twisted neck. Maybe I should?!

I have looked at Heritage too. And other brands too like Peerless, Eastman, but I don't know how to explain the Gibson thing. I looked at Ibanez too, and own AS103, but no matter what, I still will hunt ES175...

Thanks!

**Eddie Lang** · 02-25-2013, 02:48 AM

Hi Fender. I agree with rpguitar. My Gibson's I'll buy vintage. If I want something brand new, I'll go elsewhere, independent luthier or even small factory.

Here in town, there is not a lot of choice for archtops, especially used ones. If you wanted a new Eastman, there is Mike at the Acoustic Guitar (appointment only) in St.Andrews Heights near the University, (403) 880-2166. Great guy to deal with. He often has consignments on used guitars as well. Another local option is Steve at Vintage Music 88 on 14 Street NW, (403) 338-2088. It's a dusty shop but there are some good things to find if you check in regularly.

Then there is online. Great choice there, but you don't get to try it out before you buy. Any decent store has a return policy though, but you're out shipping if the need arises. In Canada, there is The Twelfth Fret in Toronto as mentioned above. There is also Folkway Music in Guelph.

Otherwise, there are stores in the States. If you get a guitar shipped to Canada by UPS from the U.S.A., make sure that you choose the Expedited service. It's under two days and most importantly, you don't have to pay anything else but GST. Watch out for brokerage fees if you select a cheaper and slower service: you'll end up paying more...

Among those online stores that I have had good experiences with: Archtop.com, Bernunzio, Lark Street Music, Chicago Music Exchange, Gryphon, Intermountain. Some of them a few years ago, others in the last year. There are a few other reputable ones too, Elderly, Gruhn, Vintage Instruments in PA, Players Vintage Instruments in CA, Eric Schoenberg, Mandolin Bros. and many more.

**Jazz_175** · 02-25-2013, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by fender

I didn't tell anything in store about twisted neck. Maybe I should?!

In my Opinion: yes, at least to see what they say, because, if it is so evident, they should say something.

You mentioned Ibanez. If you like a 175 sound, maybe the right Ibanez to try is one of the Metheny Models, like the pm120.

**Bluedawg** · 02-25-2013, 11:53 AM

I bought a new '08 L5CES and a new '10 L5WES and they are great guitars with no problems.

Gibson puts out a lot of guitars so there's going to be a few clunkers out there

I suspect that Jabberwacky is talking about this Gibson L7C in Tucson:

Gibson Electric Guitar | 2006 L7C Ebony and Ivory | Rainbow Guitars

In '92 I looked at an '88 L4CES at Chuck Levins. They gave me a great price on it, but the neck was in bad shape. I offered to buy the guitar if the store could have its repair shop straighten out the neck. They successfully straightened out the neck and I bought the guitar. It has been straight ever since and has only needed a truss rod tweak now and then.

I wouldn't be too quick to condemn Gibson for the condition of a 6 year old guitar without knowing how it has been stored or cared for in those six years. ... and an out of sorts neck is not necessarily the end of life for a guitar ... although I understand the caution.

The new 1959 reissue ES175s look like they could be nice if you wanted to go new.

Gibson Custom Shop 1959 ES-175D VOS Vintage Natural | Rainbow Guitars

Then again these issues are why I like to play before I pay and I completely understand the desire to stick with used guitars. Fortunately, I can be at Rainbow in Tucson in about an hour from my house and they usually have a lot of guitars to try.

**Jabberwocky** · 02-25-2013, 04:53 PM

Yeah, Bluedawg, that is the L7C I was talking about. I had been meaning to PM you to ask you if you knew anything about it. Guess you already do.

How bad is the neck really? Would a re-fret make it playable?

You could PM me, if you'd like to talk about it in private.

**Encinitastubes** · 02-26-2013, 01:52 AM

When I bought my 2006 ES-175 last year, it sounded dead acoustically. However, it did have old strings. The neck was so perfect for me and it played in tune so well that I took a chance. New strings and a minor set up and I'm still thrilled. The P-90s sound as good as anything I've played.

I think acoustic guitars need to be played a lot to sound good. That's certainly true of my classicals, which need to be played to come back to life. Now, I'm not trying to justify sloppy workmanship, I just think that a lot of fine guitars get a bad wrap simply because they've been sitting around with dead strings.