Mysterious Buzz on a Gibson ES-175

[Philco]

Well actually it's a Gibson 775 not a 175 but close enough.

When I play a chord...even fairly softly I can hear a metallic buzzing.....no not string or fret buzz. It sounds like aluminium foil buzzing. It's not a single buzz.....I mean it sounds like a conglomerate sound.

Here is what I've done to try and stop it.
.....oh and did I mention it's not fret buzz?
1 Both pickups removed and packed with foam.....in between the plastic rim and pickup cover.
It's not the pickup covers or screws or outer mounting ring screws.

2 Removed the bridge and replaced it with a bridge with no retaining spring and with adjusting screws that are fixed in place. It's the third bridge i've tried. Believe me it ain't the bridge.
The strings are not touching any part of the bridge except the slot on the saddle. They clear the front and back by a mile.

3 Removed the scratch plate. Still buzzes without it.
Put foam under the tailpiece.

4 Made sure that the knobs were not loose and put foam underneath them.

5 Checked the strap buttons and all screws.

6 Checked and tightened machine heads.

7 Checked Truss Rod.

8 Checked for loose strut (Luthier used mirror) and when the top is tapped there is no sign of rattling.

9 Tried different sets of strings.(I cut my string ends off so it's not that)

10 Frets have been dressed and checked for tightness.
And STILL it buzzes....just at the tail end of a chord.
Through the amp it sounds like distortion and it's totally killed the sound of the instrument.

The ONLY thing I can think of is that some part of the electric wiring is touching the top.
But I think that would sound different.
This is a light "metallic rattling or gargling" sound.

So before I pull all the wiring out has anyone solved a problem like this?

[korey-craft]

sounds like it could be a the trapeze bridge. Does it do this when you strum it plugged in or unplugged or both? I suggest the trapeze bridge coz sometimes string aren't quite mounted as well as they could be from time to time. Also check the bridge and remove the retaining wire off the saddles if you have a retaining wire. You'll just have to be cautious changing strings. I used to own a casino and a 175 pulled both retaining wires on both bridges. I upgraded the ES-175 with a bigsby, all buzzing gone. I was going to do the same to the casino and ended up selling it instead. hope this helps.

[kris]

is it betwen bridge and tailpiece?

[Philco]

sounds like it could be a the trapeze bridge. Does it do this when you strum it plugged in or unplugged or both? I suggest the trapeze bridge coz sometimes string aren't quite mounted as well as they could be from time to time. Also check the bridge and remove the retaining wire off the saddles if you have a retaining wire. You'll just have to be cautious changing strings. I used to own a casino and a 175 pulled both retaining wires on both bridges. I upgraded the ES-175 with a bigsby, all buzzing gone. I was going to do the same to the casino and ended up selling it instead. hope this helps.

This is my third bridge. It's not the bridge because this one has no spring and no rattling screws because they have been locked with wax.....just in case.
I ordered a Sadowsky ebony bridge today....that's my fourth.....just in case.....well that and I do want to try a wood bridge.

Regarding the tailpiece....I do have a lump of foam under it and I can actually put my hand on it after I strum and the buzz is still there.
The tailpiece had a lump of ebony as decoration on it and that has also been removed.

[Philco]

is it betwen bridge and tailpiece?

I do have a lump of foam beneath the strings and jammed against the body in that gap between the tailpiece and bridge.

It's hard to hear exactly where it's coming from but if I HAD to say then it sounds like it's coming from in between the pickups.

I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

Perhaps it's a pot or just a bit of wire touching somewhere.

But it sounds more sizzling than that.

[kris]

I do have a lump of foam beneath the strings and jammed against the body in that gap between the tailpiece and bridge.

It's hard to hear exactly where it's coming from but if I HAD to say then it sounds like it's coming from in between the pickups.

I'm going to get to the bottom of this.

Perhaps it's a pot or just a bit of wire touching somewhere.

But it sounds more sizzling than that.

Ebony bridge will work good and problem out.

[oldane]

I asume the neck doesn't have a back bow. If so, the strings between the nut and the fretted note can buzz. In that case the truss nut should be loosened (go slow - a quarter turn a time).

If the neck doesn't have a back bow, it can be the string notches in the nut which are cut a tiny fraction too low. Put something (a piece of paper tissue or whatever) bewteen the strings and the fretboard at the first fret to see of the sound disappears. It it does, the best solution is to have the nut replaced which is very much an everyday task for guitar technicians and luthiers and it should not be too expensive. A temporary remedy can be to put bone dust (if it is a bone nut) in the offensive string slot and then put a drop of very thin superglue in the dust. This will more or less fill up the gap and a new notch can be filed (a little higher then the previous one). It's important that the superglue is the thinnest possible version, else it will not permeate the bone dust but just lie on top of it. Spare a bone next time you eat a pork chops and boil it clean - it may come in handy.

I can recommend this book as a guide for those kind of small repairs (and bigger one for that matter if you dare):

Amazon.com: The Guitar Player Repair Guide - 3rd (9780879309213): Dan Erlewine: Books

There many other ways of fixing things than the ones mentioned in the book, but hey, the tricks in the book work. You can also go to StewMacs web site. They have a huge collection of "Trade Secrets" from two very competent luthiers (Dan Erlewine and Erick Coleman) giving all kinds of useful advice along with some funny stories:

STEWMAC.COM : Trade Secrets Archive

[Little Jay]

Check the pick-ups. It could be the little springs around the screws holding the humbucker in place. My Japanese ES-175 copy as well as my ES-333 occasionally buzz because of that, usually cured by rocking the pick up a bit...

[Little Jay]

It's not the pickup covers or screws or outer mounting ring screws.

Oops, didn't read carefully enough......

[Philco]

I asume the neck doesn't have a back bow. If so, the strings between the nut and the fretted note can buzz. In that case the truss nut should be loosened (go slow - a quarter turn a time).

If the neck doesn't have a back bow, it can be the string notches in the nut which are cut a tiny fraction too low. Put something (a piece of paper tissue or whatever) bewteen the strings and the fretboard at the first fret to see of the sound disappears. It it does, the best solution is to have the nut replaced which is very much an everyday task for guitar technicians and luthiers and it should not be too expensive. A temporary remedy can be to put bone dust (if it is a bone nut) in the offensive string slot and then put a drop of very thin superglue in the dust. This will more or less fill up the gap and a new notch can be filed (a little higher then the previous one). It's important that the superglue is the thinnest possible version, else it will not permeate the bone dust but just lie on top of it. Spare a bone next time you eat a pork chops and boil it clean - it may come in handy.

I can recommend this book as a guide for those kind of small repairs (and bigger one for that matter if you dare):

Amazon.com: The Guitar Player Repair Guide - 3rd (9780879309213): Dan Erlewine: Books

There many other ways of fixing things than the ones mentioned in the book, but hey, the tricks in the book work. You can also go to StewMacs web site. They have a huge collection of "Trade Secrets" from two very competent luthiers (Dan Erlewine and Erick Coleman) giving all kinds of useful advice along with some funny stories:

STEWMAC.COM : Trade Secrets Archive

Thanks Oldane, that was a good suggestion and one I hadn't thought of.
I carried out some experiments.
First I put a capo on and stuffed some foam under the strings between the nut and the capo. The buzz remains as strong as ever.

I'm seeing the Luthier on Friday and I hope to get to the bottom of this then.

Thanks also for the links. I'll check them out.

[PTChristopher]

Well, you sure sound like you have covered all the likely sources except for marginal wire contact inside the guitar.

Two unlikely sources are a loose strap button and a loose tuner component (usually the washer under the tuner nut).

The switch can also be a source of a buzz.

Many guitar sounds can seem to be coming from the middle of the top when they are coming from somewhere else. So, yeah, check all internal wiring for slight contact with the top, but also do not rule out sources that are not right at the apparent sound point.

All in my opinion.

Chris

[Philco]

Ok nailed it!!
The pots!!

You're probably thinking it was the old loose spline on the pot problem....which I knew nothing about until my Luthier held down all 4 pots and the rattling stopped.
But actually it wasn't the splines.
No amount of foam jammed under the knobs would stop the infernal buzzing.....remember I had tried that already.

The culprit?

At the base of the spline is a small "washer". All that was needed was some cotton jammed into it and around it and BINGO. No rattles.

Bloody hell that was a journey!

[Pierrot]

Congrats!

[PTChristopher]

Wowie, thanks for posting the eventual solution. Tough one for certain, glad you are all set.

Chris

[wallburg]

Thank You so much for posting this and comming with a solution. I have an Gibson ES 125 which have this terrible metallic buzz. It's the middle of the night in Denmark when I read your story. I was in bed (I'm off for work tomorrow) but I just had to go to my music room to check if the solution could be the same for me. And EUREKA...... When I touched one of the pots the sound disappeared.
Now I just have to figure out what "spline" and "washer" means in Danish. But that will not be a big issue .....I hope. Thank You again and give Your luthier a virtual beer from me. Now I can sleep with calm in my mind

[va3ux]

Unreal how little it takes to create such an annoying distraction and how difficult it can be to track it down.

[Philco]

Thank You so much for posting this and comming with a solution. I have an Gibson ES 125 which have this terrible metallic buzz. It's the middle of the night in Denmark when I read your story. I was in bed (I'm off for work tomorrow) but I just had to go to my music room to check if the solution could be the same for me. And EUREKA...... When I touched one of the pots the sound disappeared.
Now I just have to figure out what "spline" and "washer" means in Danish. But that will not be a big issue .....I hope. Thank You again and give Your luthier a virtual beer from me. Now I can sleep with calm in my mind

Well the "spline" is the shaft and USUALLY that's the part that will have a little slack in it and they have been known to cause problems.
But in my case it was this little silver washer........


Can you see the cotton that is jammed in there?

In your case it might be the spline.
The incredible thing is that you would not think this little part would make a buzzing sound BUT it only buzzes at the frequency of the string vibration.......so it sounds like a string buzzing.
When you tap it, you won't hear much of anything but when you feed it the correct frequencies it will sound like string buzz.

Kind of like if you stand in a small room with guitars hanging on the wall......then if you scream loudly....you will hear some string buzz but you will also hear your own voice ringing back at you. The guitar strings have only picked up certain frequencies in your voice and are sympathetically vibrating......so it sounds like your voice......just as my pot washers sounded like chords "buzzing"
Good luck!!

[oldane]

Now I just have to figure out what "spline" and "washer" means in Danish. But that will not be a big issue .....I hope.

It's not a big issue - there are fellow Danes on the forum. I'll switch to Danish here:

"Spline" er potmetrets aksel, "washer" er en spændeskive/afstandsskive. Du kan også tjekke, om potmetret er ordentlig fastspændt til guitardækket (den sekskantede møtrik, du kan se på billedet).

Jeg kender det fra mig selv. Mislyde, man ikke kan lokalisere årsagen til, er sindssygt irriterende. Ofte kan lydene kureres med simple midler. På billedet er det med et stykke snor. Jeg har en Gibson 175, som i over 30 år har haft en stump af et udslidt saxofonblad siddende kilet ind mellem PUen og PU ringen for at stoppe vibrationer. Simpelt men effektivt.

[wallburg]

Thank you Philco. Your picture was very helpful. Indeed it was a problem with a
washer in the pot I use the most (the volume for the neck PU). I did like you and fixed it with a bit of cotton, but as oldane said, one can use what ever comes handy and have the proper size. It's a big relief that the noise have gone and I'm sure it will improve my playing substantially

And to oldane in Danish:

Mange tak skal du have. Jeg tænkte nok, at det var en spændeskive der var problemet. Som du skriver er lyden akustisk forfærdelig irriterende og umusikalsk. Da den imidlertid ikke har påvirket det forstærkede signal havde jeg lært at leve med det. Da denne tråd kom op øjnede jeg en mulighed for at få løst problemet og voila!
Endnu en gang tusinde tak.

[fws6]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mysterious Buzz on the guitar

[Philco]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mysterious Buzz on the guitar

Where in the world...............

[oldane]

I remember a thread some time ago where a poster wrote that he had an L5 which must have been unattended for quite some time. At least it had a wasps nest inside - the wasps had left though.

[fws6]

Yup that was me, too. Although it was not an L5 but this Epi Emperor

[pingu]

Ok nailed it!!


The culprit?

At the base of the spline is a small "washer". All that was needed was some cotton jammed into it and around it and BINGO. No rattles.

Bloody hell that was a journey!

Its soooo great when you find it .......... isn't it ?
SO GREAT

I had a journey with mine , turned out to be
the tailpiece , the curly bits on a birdland type
not soldered onto the tp correctly
fixed with a bit of foam and voila !

Sooo great , sorry to be repetetive but it is

[cosmic gumbo]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mysterious Buzz on the guitar

Didn't he used to play for Sting?