Guitar Shops and Intimidation

**dmort** · 07-31-2010, 12:11 AM

Hey all, I live in New York City and so I am blessed with plenty of guitar shops. However, a lot of these shops are pretty intimidating. I consistently find the sales people at Sam Ash (Manny's) somewhat unhelpful, and unwilling to let you try things. Every electric guitar is locked to its stand... Going to that store just isn't a good experience for me.

Other shops, like Rudy's Music, carry such expensive stuff that they aren't really willing just to let you try things.

I usually end up going to Guitar Center, which I don't really want to go to because I'd rather support a local shop than a national chain, because the guys there, even if not too knowledgable are friendly, and the guitars aren't locked up. It is easy to play around.

Does anyone know of other shops that carry a range instruments that isn't intimidating or full of pressure?

I want to make an appointment to go to Guitars N Jazz, but I have no intention of buying anything right now. So I feel uncomfortable scheduling an appointment, taking up someone's time, when I'm not going to be spending that day. Has anyone ever been there?

I'm in the process of shopping around for a guitar, but I want to try stuff. When I'm finally ready to pull the trigger, I'm looking to spend around $1500 at a shop that I can form a relationship with.

Any advice?

TommyD · 07-31-2010, 02:05 AM

I live in New York too, and I know exactly what you mean. Those guys who treat you condescendingly are jerks trying to get even for their own failure. They are little-to-no talent musicians who didn't make it on the scene, dig? So they take a job in a music store and watch people coming and going with talent, instruments, and money, while they're there making peanuts and not playing, and it drives them bananas.
The best approach is be polite and nice, but don't take their sh#t. Tell them you want to try X instrument, amp, whatever, and you want a room in the back. If they persist in being sh#ts, ask to see the manager. That usually brings them to their senses.
It's a good idea when you enter the store to just watch the interaction between the sales staff and the customers for a while. You'll soon spot the losers. When you get somebody you can talk to, be straight with him/her. Tell them what you're looking for and how much you want to spend. Ask their advice.
But however firm you decide to be, be kind. Remember "There but for the grace of God . . ."

tommy/

**bkdavidson** · 07-31-2010, 03:56 AM

There's a store here in St. Louis that deals exclusively in high-end equipment, and they literally keep the door locked. You have to make an appointment and be buzzed in. If you're late for your appointment, they turn you away. They don't let you turn anything up to a usable volume, and hover over you and ask when you're gonna buy whatever you're testing. They look down their nose at you no matter what you're there for. I honestly don't know how they're in business, because St. Louis doesn't have the kind of music community to support a store that sells boutique stuff almost exclusively. It kind of reminds me of an SNL sketch where Jimmy Fallon and Sean Hayes worked in some super-hip clothing store and made fun of all the customers and said the store was so much better before they put a door in.

**RoyaleT** · 07-31-2010, 05:53 AM

You can always try to see Lou@ Guitars & Jazz in Summit , NJ, minutes from the train station, and John @ Golden Age Fretted Inst. in Westfield, directly accross from the train station. Good selection at various price points, and very comfortable shopping experience.

**Tom Karol** · 07-31-2010, 08:51 AM

Well, I occasionally stop by The Music Emporium in Lexington, MA (not the NYC area, I know). I tell them I have an old 000-28 that I might want to replace with a high-end OM – not right now, but sometime. Well, they put a stool in a quiet corner of the shop with 3 or 4 $3K OM’s (Collings, Tippin, Bourgeous, Froggy Bottom, Santa Cruz, Huss & Dalton, etc.) in front of me on stands, tell me to ask if I need more help, and go away to let me play for as long as I want. (They have Jazz boxes, too.)

There’s a store I usually go to when we visit relatives in Portland Maine called Buckdancer’s Choice. I played a couple of Eastmans and a Taylor T5 the last time I was there – no hassles.

My local hole-in-the-wall music store (Barnstorm Music II) usually doesn’t have any really high-end stuff, but he’ll let me try anything in the store if I ask.

Guitar Center will generally let you try anything, but I rarely find anything I want to try.

So, there are friendly music stores out there (but maybe not in NYC?).

**dmort** · 07-31-2010, 09:06 AM

I know buck dancer's choice. I went to college there and in my "glory" days played occasional gigs in portland. Then there is the guitar gallery of Northern New England, it is in Milford, NH, and it is an excellent store. I had been driving past it for years, and finally went in recently. Great store.

RoyaleT have you been to Guitars N Jazz? I just worry if there would be a purchasing expectation since you have to make an appointment. If that isn't the case, I'll be over there soon.

**keith** · 07-31-2010, 10:27 AM

I've been to GuitarsNJazz and actually purchased from Lou. He does this as a hobby and is very pleasant and accommodating. Just be up front with him when you contact him and have an idea of what instruments you're interested in. I can guarantee you that every appointment is not a sale for him so don't worry but come somewhat prepared on your interests. You can see his inventory at his website. I had been interested in Eastmans at the time but didn't have access to them and he allowed me to just play through his inventory and showed me some things that I hadn't thought of prior. Nice guy. Good luck.

**cutnstuf** · 07-31-2010, 10:41 AM

I haven't been there in years, but when I lived in Brooklyn, Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island was a pretty cool place.

Cut

**jeffstritt** · 07-31-2010, 10:54 AM

I haven't ever dealt with Lou at Guitars N Jazz, but I know several people that have and they all said it was a pleasant experience. I think people that have been in business for a while have enough snap to know that it is about relationships. You do good on the front end and you usually get rewarded with business for the long term.
You are the customer. Your money keep the lights running and salaries paid. If somebody in the store is being a jerk to you why would you want to pay that jerk's salary?

**lpdeluxe** · 07-31-2010, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by bkdavidson

There's a store here in St. Louis that deals exclusively in high-end equipment, and they literally keep the door locked. You have to make an appointment and be buzzed in. If you're late for your appointment, they turn you away. They don't let you turn anything up to a usable volume, and hover over you and ask when you're gonna buy whatever you're testing. They look down their nose at you no matter what you're there for. I honestly don't know how they're in business, because St. Louis doesn't have the kind of music community to support a store that sells boutique stuff almost exclusively. It kind of reminds me of an SNL sketch where Jimmy Fallon and Sean Hayes worked in some super-hip clothing store and made fun of all the customers and said the store was so much better before they put a door in.

Haha--I've been there! I went with a friend who wanted to try a Martin. He called, we were met at the door at the appointed time (as opposed to "greeted") by one of the minions, who led us inside. My friend asked to play a particular Martin. He was left alone while the agent of darkness disappeared down the stairs to re-emerge carrying the guitar. He then stood three feet away while my friend sat on a stool and played it.

Nice guitars, but heavy on the bling (PRS and Heritage with heavily figured wood, for example). Not my kind of place.

At the other extreme is my local Fender dealer, where I can go in and try out anything. The owner deals in "vintage," too, and I have to ask to look at those, but it's no big deal.

**RoyaleT** · 07-31-2010, 11:18 AM

I have been to Guitars & Jazz, a friend purchased a Peerless from Lou, nice selection and everything was cordial, professional and comfortable. And dealt with John @ Golden age for a ProBag leather gig bag, but would not hesitate to return for an instrument.

**Alder Statesman** · 07-31-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by dmort

...I usually end up going to Guitar Center, which I don't really want to go to because I'd rather support a local shop than a national chain...

Local support is a two way street. You have given the local boys a chance to serve you, the local customer. If they prefer to ignore you, there is no obligation for you to go back and take their snobbish attitude.

Go where the staff lets you try out the gear and offers you, the paying customer, a little respect. Later you will read an article how the local business has failed and blamed it on the national chain.

**randyc** · 07-31-2010, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by TommyD

I live in New York too, and I know exactly what you mean. Those guys who treat you condescendingly are jerks trying to get even for their own failure. They are little-to-no talent musicians who didn't make it on the scene, dig? So they take a job in a music store and watch people coming and going with talent, instruments, and money, while they're there making peanuts and not playing, and it drives them bananas.
The best approach is be polite and nice, but don't take their sh#t. Tell them you want to try X instrument, amp, whatever, and you want a room in the back. If they persist in being sh#ts, ask to see the manager. That usually brings them to their senses.
It's a good idea when you enter the store to just watch the interaction between the sales staff and the customers for a while. You'll soon spot the losers. When you get somebody you can talk to, be straight with him/her. Tell them what you're looking for and how much you want to spend. Ask their advice.
But however firm you decide to be, be kind. Remember "There but for the grace of God . . ."

tommy/

Much good advice in addition to the insight into behavioral characteristics. Frankly, even after fifty years of hanging around music stores, I had never considered that the staff might be those who occupy the musical second-tier.

Now that Tommy has brought it up, I can see that it explains much about the "attitude" that one encounters in a LOT of these places.

Cheers,
Randy C

**jeffstritt** · 07-31-2010, 02:54 PM

Those places will go out of business and blame the economy.

**Norman931** · 07-31-2010, 03:51 PM

Love living near Nashville. GREAT music stores, staffed by knowledgeable gigging musicians. For a real treat, visit Gruhn's Guitars. I played a Benedetto in there one day that was priced at $20,000. (No, I didn't buy it!)

**Doctor Jeff** · 08-01-2010, 11:20 PM

You might take a flight to Minneapolis. Go visit Willie's Guitars in St. Paul--mainly American made, lots of vintage Fenders and Gibsons. They'll let you play til your fingers bleed. Then drive down to Dave's Guitar Shop in La Crosse, WI.

Personally I don't think you can beat Dave's. His selection is phenomenal, and the staff is very helpful but very low key. If you want to play loud you can go to the "garage" and crank it up.

When I lived there I would go in every 1-2 months and just play through a few different guitars. I have bought 4 guitars there over the years, and the service on each one was phenomenal.

They do a thriving mail-order business too, in fact probably make most of their money on out-of-town buyers, including some of the biggest artists in the world.

I have always viewed them as the model for excellent salesmanship--let the customer try out the merchandise, stand by to help or answer questions, and sooner or later he will buy something and keep coming back.

**P.J.** · 08-02-2010, 06:04 AM

Go to whatever shop you want. Don't be intimidated by shop workers. If you try stuff out at a place and like the gear and the people you may come back and buy from them at another point in time.

PJ

**derek** · 08-02-2010, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by bkdavidson

There's a store here in St. Louis that deals exclusively in high-end equipment, and they literally keep the door locked. You have to make an appointment and be buzzed in. If you're late for your appointment, they turn you away. They don't let you turn anything up to a usable volume, and hover over you and ask when you're gonna buy whatever you're testing. They look down their nose at you no matter what you're there for. I honestly don't know how they're in business, because St. Louis doesn't have the kind of music community to support a store that sells boutique stuff almost exclusively. It kind of reminds me of an SNL sketch where Jimmy Fallon and Sean Hayes worked in some super-hip clothing store and made fun of all the customers and said the store was so much better before they put a door in.

I have been there quite a few times in the past, and remember when it wasn't like that, you could walk in and play whatever you wanted if you were respectful. They do most of their biz online these days is what I understand. You are right, St. Louis is not gonna justify the inventory they have.

Fazios is my fav StL shop these days. Always nice guys, and they have a wonderful acoustic section, and usually a few archtops laying about. Tom Bills has an archtop or two in there often.

**lindydanny** · 08-02-2010, 12:20 PM

I have a similar problem here in KC. I recently ordered (because they didn't keep any in stock) a baritone ukulele (seriously). That was three weeks ago now. Here's the results so far:

Monday: Ordered it and was told they'd have it in the next week.
Next Monday: Went by and it wasn't in yet, try back later in the week.
Following Friday: Wasn't in, call Monday.
Called Monday: It shipped; should be there Wednesday.
Wednesday: Went by and the guy was aggravated that I even asked. Said they'd call when it came in.

I've sort of given up but still giving them a total of a month before I call and tell them I've found another instrument. The crappy thing is, the store is in my suburb (the only one) and I am in a community band with the owner. Although, I don't know him well, the subject is bound to come up and he staffs the place with guys he went to high school with.

I guess the "local" Guitar Center will be my new musical home. Sad since it is about a forty-five minute drive from my house.

~DB

P.S.: There is a shop near my work, but they deal only in moderate price and quality used instruments. Not a great place to get something special ordered or new.

**derek** · 08-02-2010, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by lindydanny

I have a similar problem here in KC. I recently ordered (because they didn't keep any in stock) a baritone ukulele (seriously). That was three weeks ago now. Here's the results so far:

Monday: Ordered it and was told they'd have it in the next week.
Next Monday: Went by and it wasn't in yet, try back later in the week.
Following Friday: Wasn't in, call Monday.
Called Monday: It shipped; should be there Wednesday.
Wednesday: Went by and the guy was aggravated that I even asked. Said they'd call when it came in.

I've sort of given up but still giving them a total of a month before I call and tell them I've found another instrument. The crappy thing is, the store is in my suburb (the only one) and I am in a community band with the owner. Although, I don't know him well, the subject is bound to come up and he staffs the place with guys he went to high school with.

I guess the "local" Guitar Center will be my new musical home. Sad since it is about a forty-five minute drive from my house.

~DB

P.S.: There is a shop near my work, but they deal only in moderate price and quality used instruments. Not a great place to get something special ordered or new.

Do you mind pming me about which store? If it is the one I am thinking of, I know the owner, sales manager and am on first name basis with everyone there. The owner would be very put out if a customer was treated thus. Could be a different one though.

**patskywriter** · 08-02-2010, 01:47 PM

i had a hilarious experience with a local music store a few years ago. i stopped in, looked around, and asked if they ever stocked the epiphone chet atkins model (nylon-string electric). no big deal—a $400 guitar. one salesman hollered across the room to the other, "yeah, remember that chet atkins epi we had a couple of years ago? that thing sat around for 2 years before somebody bought it!"

i said, well, "OK, would you be able to order one for me?" (i had the $400 in my pocket.) the salesman said, "well, i dunno, the last one we had sat around for like 2 years ..." i said, "i can put down a deposit or pay in advance." the salesman thought for a minute and then said, "well, the last one we had, it took something like 2 years to get rid of ..."

it was like dealing with a total idiot. we went back and forth a few times and i finally gave up and ordered it online. i was nervous about buying a musical instrument without playing it first, but everything turned out fine.

that store went out of business a a couple of years later. dummies.

**JohnW400** · 08-02-2010, 01:59 PM

@dmort

Try Lark Street Music as well in Teaneck NJ. Mandolin Brothers is also a good spot. I never felt any pressure there. Comfy environment.

There may be a few spots on the Island like the Music Zoo. All depends on what your're looking for.

FYI Golden Age is right by the Train station in Westfield. They may even know what trains to take from NYC to there and back

**bkdavidson** · 08-02-2010, 02:43 PM

Derek, I remember a time when you could walk into that store and browse as well. One day I was in the neighborhood in the middle of a Saturday afternoon, pulled on the door, and it was locked. I could see a couple guys inside, and they acted as if nothing happened. Then I read reviews about this appointment crap, and that store has been dead to me since. The other thing I keep hearing about them is that they sell their amps at the list price and won't budge. Fazio's is a great shop. Have you been there since they moved from Manchester/141 to their new location?

**Funkwire** · 08-02-2010, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

You might take a flight to Minneapolis. Go visit Willie's Guitars in St. Paul--mainly American made, lots of vintage Fenders and Gibsons. They'll let you play til your fingers bleed. Then drive down to Dave's Guitar Shop in La Crosse, WI.

Personally I don't think you can beat Dave's. His selection is phenomenal, and the staff is very helpful but very low key. If you want to play loud you can go to the "garage" and crank it up.

When I lived there I would go in every 1-2 months and just play through a few different guitars. I have bought 4 guitars there over the years, and the service on each one was phenomenal.

They do a thriving mail-order business too, in fact probably make most of their money on out-of-town buyers, including some of the biggest artists in the world.

I have always viewed them as the model for excellent salesmanship--let the customer try out the merchandise, stand by to help or answer questions, and sooner or later he will buy something and keep coming back.

Interesting. I live very close to Willie's. Every time I've been in, I can't get the time of day. Nobody is nasty or intimidating, they just don't even acknowledge me.

I haven't been to Dave's, but everyone I know who has dealt with him has really good things to say about the experience. I'll have to make the road trip one of these days.

**zovanou** · 08-02-2010, 04:02 PM

NYC guitar shops are not really great places , Mandolin Bros and 30th Street Guitars are the exception they let you play anything .Rudys, attitude driven ,Mannys/Sam Ash is just a Guitar center. I live in NYC and have had to resort to mail order to even play anything not Guitar Center stock. It is pretty sad .