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I am looking for suggestions about key things to look for when analysing chord progressions which will give me greatest insight into what is going on harmonically and hopefully improve my playing over changes.
So far my very basic method for learning a tune is to learn the melody, then work out the chords and look at the function of each part within the song. I then play over each section to make sure I am correct in how I think the song is progressing. I also play the melody in various positions in chord shapes to get familiar with how key notes change and then right out a chart of each note over each chord and then see what the melody note is in relation to the chord.
Is there anything else I should be looking at at a micro and macro level?
Thanks
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02-06-2020 02:58 PM
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two suggestions at a micro level:
- the voicing movement: internal movements of the soprano, alto, tenor and bass voices of the chords
- the intervals in the chords and their sequences two by two
the goal is to link chords and melody by the voicings and intervals, then to consider the fragmentation of intervals of 4 notes in 1/3 notes or 2/2 notes
finally, the different voices can be connected by diatonic passing notes (refered to tonality) or chromatic notes
vision changes and the playing opens up to contrapuntal possibilities
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
Here's a link to an article that might be helpful.
http://www.thejazzpianosite.com/jazz...modal-harmony/
Partly, it's based on the idea that a lot of songs, particularly older standards, are composed of a lot of dominant to tonic movements. That's, for example, G7 to Cmajor. And, then, in front of the G7, you can add a Dm7. Since these chords gravitate towards Cmajor, they're considered to be in "C major tonal center". If you improvise using a C major scale over all three chords, it will sound consonant. Some people will tell you that you need to be careful where you play the F note and maybe the B note, but try it and see what you think.
So, for example, Yardbird Suite starts on Cmajor, so that's C major tonal center. Then it goes to Fm7 and Bb7. You could see that as Eb major tonal center. Then, there are a bunch of chords which gravitate towards Cmajor, which you could simply play over in Cmajor tonal center. There are a couple of accidentals you may want to include. A better theorist will be able to explain this in terms of "secondary dominants", but for me, it's a question of thinking "background is Cmajor, with adjustments for a chord like A7, which takes a C# and maybe an F#".
Then, leading to the bridge, it's Fm7b5 to B7b9, leading to Em. So, the tonal center becomes Em.
Anyway, that's more or less how it works.
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
I find that when the source, process, and product are non-verbal ideas (not the usual objects of an analysis), they are much closer to "how it sounds and possibilities for how it could sound". Of course, those that have spent enough time looking at charts, sheets, and scores also learn to recognize "how it sounds and possibilities for how it could sound".
That last part about "how it could sound" is important. When you work out the chords, there are multiple solutions, different functions, and a lot of variation in how even a simple melody line may be played over chords (especially displacement by leading and lagging with respect to the harmony)... basically, "the map is not the territory" kind of thing.
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Navigation yeah
I think what you're doing is great ....
I try to do what your doing
and
i sometimes write the important melody notes
('reduced melody' trombonist Ed Byrne's thing Byrne Jazz - Home not affiliated)
onto to the chord of the moment
eg in 'the end of a love affair' in Ebmaj
i write first chord as Fmin9 etc etc etc
Quoting bits of the melody is good
and it helps me with navigation
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02-07-2020, 12:48 AM #6joelf Guest
Where the top and bottom voices are going. That's the indicator. Work from the outside in. Get the bass and lead then fill in the middle. Western music is directional. That's why they're called progressions.
Look for contrary motion, then improvise in the other direction of the bass voice. If the harmony is more static (not moving) then it's more of a challenge. Then you lean on the groove more, or go in and out. Or just be simple and poetic, like the blues players. It's hard to be interesting on one or two chords---at least for me. Much easier to play against the motion.
Also, be contrapuntal: if the harmony is slow play against it. If it's simple there's room for you to be complex. If it's already complex be simple. Contrast is more interesting then 'painting with one color'...
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Babaluma -
The trouble is you've asked a simple question that has a BIG answer.
It's a bit like going to another country with yourl phrasebook and asking a local 'Where is the Post Office?'. And the guy waves his hands around and goes 'Binhgd gydssbnni iygbb huyedbn nygf hhngfcxr gfccbv'. Easy to ask the question but you might not understand the answer!
It might be easier if you googled this subject, to be honest. There are lots of sites that deal with it. Here's a video by Jens Larsen that demonstrates a simple way to do it. He speeds it up at the end a bit because he wants to keep it short but his instruction is clear and good enough if you can follow it.
Ultimately it's more complex than this (because there's usually more than one option of what to play over the chords) but this is a good start. He's done more videos on this same subject as well.
The point is: keep it very simple till you've got the idea.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I’m going to plump for the simple approach. This worked for me.
learn a LOT of tunes. Look out for patterns.
be a collector, not a theorist
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One addition to Christian's post: always follow your ears. Good playing . . . Marinero
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Originally Posted by pauln
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Originally Posted by pingu
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Originally Posted by joelf
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Thanks very much, I will check this out. Yes I thought I may open a can of worms with this topic! I definitely aim to keep things simple at first, I have no choice
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
Tonal centres.
5-1 and 2-5-1 progressions, major and minor, and similar standard progressions like 6-2-5-1-4 as in All The Things You Are. You might wonder what that DbM7 was doing there.
Always check the chord that follows a dominant. An A7 might go to a Dm, not a D maj - which changes the nature of the A7 and therefore the notes you play over it.
Or it might not resolve to a one chord at all so you have to figure out whether the implied tonality is major or minor (play it and see).
And watch out for 'backdoor' subs - like Fm7-Bb7-CM7. They can explain seemingly unrelated 2-5s in the middle of a tune.
Melody notes in relation to the chord. In Stella there's an Ab7 which seems harmless enough... except the only note over it is a D - which makes it a 7b5 chord. In Corcovado there's an Fm7 - Bb7 which you might assume was all in Eb... except the notes are only belong to Eb over the Fm (F dorian) but then it suddenly uses a natural E over the Bb. Or that very brazen Bb note right in the middle of a perfectly ordinary G7 in Blue Bossa (just grit your teeth and play it). Stuff like that.
All of which means that function really matters - so always take chords and melody together.
Etc, etc. I was hoping not to get into this, I really was. Good luck! :-)
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
|F- |B7. | Ebmaj7. | %. |
ok so the reduced melody (the important notes) seem to be
the notes
|G. | G. |D. | %. |
so I'd think (and possibly write on the sheet)
|F-9. |B13. | Emaj7 | %. |
etc etc
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Originally Posted by pingu
This is an especially nice idea because it is quite natural and easy to apply it (both as questioning and answering) to any tune - you don't need pencil, paper, or your instrument in hand, don't even need to be in earshot of actual music. You can do this all in your mind while on a walk or a drive... learning how to ultimately do it while performing.
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I rip apart tunes...four bars at a time..track the melody and then see what chords were used and see if they work ok or can be modified..if the melody has a D note and the chord is CM7 change it to MA9 see if it sounds better..see how the chords are connected..is there a moving bass line (or any moving voices) connecting them..check their inversions to see if its a better fit with the bassline...
many "sheet music"--realbook type chord charts for tunes can be reharmed and sound much better and make more visual/ harmonic sense..if you come across a chord that dosent seem to fit a harmonic function..it could just be named wrong..
few tunes have a "stand alone" chord in a progression that cannot be part of the harmonic function of a tune...now..this is in relation to many standards..
if we are going into bop/freejazz/fusion..then all bets are off...as many are written with static passages with a series of chords that may be unrelated and that may be
the composers style of writing..and to get accurate sheet music for such works may be a hit and miss type of thing..this is where your ears are your guide
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So... what's the point of analysis?
Personally analysis is where I start when learning or performing a tune. Analysis is helpful for understanding and performing music. It's one of many tools to help improvise and accompany when performing.
Analysis deals with and uses the melody, the changes and the rhythm... all within a FORM. It helps get a better understanding of the obvious as well as the underlining structural organization of music.
Your generally trying to....simplify a tune into smaller musical elements and what function and relationships those elements play within the structure of that tune. What makes that tune ... Like or Different from other tunes.
Analysis, (as well as learning or memorizing a tune), begins with the "FORM".
The melody as well as the chords... and the locations of those notes and chords... within the FORM.
All elements of the tune are part of the analysis... the melody, the changes, the rhythm all in relationship to a Tonal Center(s).
Melodies and changes within a form imply Key centers or tonalities within a tune.
For labeling use upper case Roman Numerals.They imply the quality of the chord,(maj, min etc) and the note or chord relationship to a Diatonic Context. Not a specific key. They help define interrelationships between melodies and chords within tonal contexts.
Analysis has theoretical references and also Sound references... what the music sounds like. There can be a few possibilities.
So approach...
Start with the...Form
1) "Form".... AABA, ABA, 12 bar or 16 bar Blues, organize the shape of the space.
2) Use melody to expand labels of chords.... if the melody has a b9th, add that to chord symbol
3) Find the important Functional locations of Chords and melody within the Form. Forms have implied Targets.
4) From above info... and ears... determine tonic, the key. Look for cadences at end of phrases , end of sections.
II V I's, V I's, II V's, IV I's. First or last chord of tune or section is often the Tonic.
5) label all diatonic chords.
6) label all non-diatonic chords, Look for passing and approach chords. Borrowed chords, secondary and extended
Dominant chords, substitute chords. Look for Cadences for possible modulations.
Use standard Jazz common analysis symbols...
1) Key centers are shown below the bars.
2) Arrows represent dominant resolutions, or functions of V7 to I chord
3) Dotted arrows represent Sub V7's, and extended or interpolated dominants. (cycles)
4) Brackets below imply II- V
5) Dotted Brackets for II- subV7's
6) Bracket above chords imply... Chord Pattern. (CP) Chord patterns work and are like Turnarounds.
I need to go... but I'll post some examples of how I personally make quick analysis of tunes I don't know or new music on gigs... same thing as prefab examples.... just with melody adjusted chords, and harmonic bigger picture. Complete note collections implications from both melody and chords.
After a while...you have-pre done analysis memorized for most tunes, and can see and hear common practice, You know what harmony is used with melodies, and common chord patterns.... the extensions and how they work together with melodies and chord progressions.
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Interesting discussion. However, from my perspective, we need some clarity. All good musicians either KNOW music theory or have an instinctive sense of theory based on years of playing changes and understanding the relationship between progressions and melody. But, in my opinion, when one's focus becomes inordinately imbued with mechanics, there is a real danger in losing sight of the musical message/creativity and creating a never-ending math problem where the music has the real potential to lose its spirit as it is over-analysed like an algebraic equation. And, of course, "spirit" was the genesis of music before "mechanics" when vocal music was used to record history, heal a sad spirit, express joy, or celebrate Man's successes. And, wasn't this the origin of Folk Music, Blues, Traditional Jazz, Dixieland and Rock Music? We are creators. We are not mathematicians. So, I am not advocating the dismissal of theory, but rather that it has it correct place when we practice our sometimes illusive Black Magic. Good playing . . . Marinero
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
some patterns only emerge after 100s of tunes.
this type of classification is natural to the human mind. We are pattern recognition machines - sometimes in a bad way haha. That is was music theory is really. What’s changed is people tend to use the same names for stuff.
but you know what? There’s still no established nomenclature for common progressions for jazz tunes. I wonder why?
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LOL... I dig your magic, Marinero.
But I'm fairly sure the OP... is still in the process of discovering the basic elements and tools... and what they are.
I love magical tools... but generally they are still just tools and technical BS. As soon as we pick up an instrument.... we're no longer using magic, we're using a tool. Still need to learn what the potions are and how to use them.
But... your point is still very TRUE. It's just that... us using that Black magic or that Black magic using us thing, or at least being aware of.
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As Alan Moore would remind us, Science is the child of Magic
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Originally Posted by Reg
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