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Originally Posted by christianm77
It's not what I was talking about exactly... Just sheer amount of songs you need to internalize if you don't want to use the charts on the gig. And the problem is often they are kinda harmonically similar to one another, so improvisation part is easy, but the melody and details in form are different.
Speaking of FORM... I'd make it an important point for aspiring player- learn to feel the form of a tune! It saved my ass so many times when playing an unfamiliar tune, and just listening to the form. Then you can't never get lost really, because you know when the A part ends, and B part begins, and A comes back again. You can BS your way through even if you don't know all the changes. (Of course it assumes you have a good timing feel, but that should be pre requisite for playing publicly anyway). There is simply nothing more embarrassing than to find yourself finishing your solo in the middles of a chorus, thinking it's the end of it, and bandmates looking at you like wtf dude, really? haha
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10-03-2016 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
But don't get the drift .... (Seriously)
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I got up on the wrong side of the couch today. I removed my gibberish.
It sounds like good advice to me. I don't have much to add.Last edited by Stevebol; 10-03-2016 at 04:49 PM.
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Thank Christian, I am taking your advice.
Two others that pros have given me
1 always sing what you play
2 write every day, wether that be walking down the road singing a new tune or at the guitar
thanks again
mark
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
Just one old man's opinionLast edited by mrcee; 10-03-2016 at 07:19 PM.
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It's not what I was talking about exactly... Just sheer amount of songs you need to internalize if you don't want to use the charts on the gig. And the problem is often they are kinda harmonically similar to one another, so improvisation part is easy, but the melody and details in form are different.
Speaking of FORM... I'd make it an important point for aspiring player- learn to feel the form of a tune! It saved my ass so many times when playing an unfamiliar tune, and just listening to the form. Then you can't never get lost really, because you know when the A part ends, and B part begins, and A comes back again. You can BS your way through even if you don't know all the changes. (Of course it assumes you have a good timing feel, but that should be pre requisite for playing publicly anyway). There is simply nothing more embarrassing than to find yourself finishing your solo in the middles of a chorus, thinking it's the end of it, and bandmates looking at you like wtf dude, really? haha
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Originally Posted by mrcee
I'm trying to decide who's culture I'm going to appropriate next. It will be Psy-Trance or bluegrass. Something like that.
Is it the audience or the players? IDK. I gave the ex CA and Japan. I took the east coast and mid-west.
I'm going to Nevada as soon as someone buys my house.Last edited by Stevebol; 10-04-2016 at 12:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
Playing rock most of my life, I've found the backbeat drummers to be a drag. Give me Keith Moon or Mitch Mitchell -- or in a jazzier context, Narada Michael Walden or Steve Gadd ... not that I'm fit to wash their socks, but you know what I mean.
I love having a complex rhythm underpinning what I'm doing, it makes me sound smart without too much extra work.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
But I don't like complexity for the sake of complexity. Complex can be great, but it has to grooving. This is why Gadd is great. And you can't say Gadd doesn't play the gig. Have you heard on Jim Hall's Concierto by the way?
Vintage Soul and Motown is where it's at for me for pop drumming. There is a great backbeat but it's never overstated.
Now: "Make it groove, let's hit the 2 and 4 because everyone knows they're the cool beats!" (Simplistic understanding of rhythm.)
You hear a lot of backbeat in swing rhythm guitar even these days. It's bullshit.Last edited by christianm77; 10-04-2016 at 06:05 AM.
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Just give me Billy Higgins any day.
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Billy's are good at drums. Billy Higgins, Billy Hart.
I also like Bill Stewart.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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You can't overstate the importance of the ride cymbal too much.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
the hat more than the ride
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Originally Posted by mrcee
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In reply to mrcees post that seems to have vanished - what should drummers do with acoustic rhythm guitar?
It's ok to ride the cymbal from time to time, but the big modern ride cymbal is too sustaining for that type of work. Also it will completely obliterate unamplified guitar.
Pre war rhythm sections are all about short, decaying sounds and everyone working together as one big instrument.
You need a lot snare and hi hat, and a proper four to the bar bass drum. Guitar plays snare and hat, bass goes with bass drum.
Getting the instrumentation right helps a lot. Modern jazz kits aren't really set up for this.
But basically tell the drummer to go listen to Jo Jones in the 30s and 40s...
It seems to me that jazz drummers find this very hard because ride cymbal is the absolute foundation of their playing. Classically trained players often have better use of instrumentation in this context. And some of them can swing, too!
Jonathon Stouts band has an excellent period style drummer btwLast edited by christianm77; 10-04-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I feel like more traditional pure swing a la Freddie Green doesn't assume backbeat indeed. But... it's not the only way to play IMO.
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I'd rather hear good programmed drums than a not so good real drummer. Not for jazz but for contemporary dance music and such things.
Henriksen Bud 6 w/ gig bag
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