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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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04-17-2018 10:24 AM
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Maybe I am wrong historically I never really analyzed that...
as kid (and I was a kid in early 80s) I was suddenly involved in The Beatles and that moved to the msuci of the 60's-70's... as I am not from USA or UK I did not realise much if this or that group was British or American..
But what I listened to was everything that was around (in last years of USSR with no Internet)... and so I listened to The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, early Elton John, early David Bowie, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple (though never really liked them), Queen, Animals and so on... there were also Creedence, The Doors, Elvis, Hendrix so some other American groups but those that are mostly post-British invaision...
Nothing specifically American (except Elvis) - which is for me Ray Charles or Joni Mitchell.. I do not even mention The Band or something like that... mostly because this was not that much around on the surface.
Later I began to listen to early jazz and I got interested in American music: in blues, soul, country, rock'n'roll etc.
Andf I noticed the difference in approach between British groups (or American but influenced by British invasion) and more tradtional American ones..
It was the performance thing: British groups sounded more like the composition and arrangement is the most important element of the song. They tried to make a song interestin as it is and original arrangement as specific as possible. So to say to make score... there are lots of cover - and beautiful ones - over popular songs of The Beatle or Elton John or Queen... but still mostly originals are strikingly authentic.
In that sence the perform is a part of an arrangement - if I can say so - a bit awkwardly...
If we take American performance... the biggest part of it is the interepretation...
the songs are often written very idiomatically with lots of stule cliches and the most attractive thing about it usually is the performer and performance, groove, improvization, intonation etc....
One of the examples: if I listen to covers made by The Beatles of The Stones of the American songs in their early years... they often sound like they were composed by The Beatles or The Stones... they sound like originals and they are very identifiable form othe songs.
If I liten to Beatles covers made by Ray Charles or Elvis - they sound like whoever composed - they are performed by Ray Charles or Elvis .. their performance is the thing (and often the performance even outshadows the song).
My idea that it is connected with strong improvizational tradition of American music - in blues, bluegrass, jazz... it's part of mentality...
Take whatever tune there is and play something else...
Why I am telling this? Because Elton John is very British in that sense... and some things that are important for him could be just of not interest for performers who care more about the moment of interepretation..
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Originally Posted by Jonah
I was listening to cream today thinking how good those tunes are as records, with Clapton so much part of the overall arrangement along with lots of other eclectic elements.
I was felt the strength of British music generally was in word setting across the board.... we are nationally obsessed with lyrics - this is the country of Shakespeare. By the arrangement paints the lyrics.
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
People say R&B has become the foundation of popular music. That's like bragging about having herpes.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
To me it also shows in general vibe... like if we're talking rock, classic Brit bands always had some sense of urgency in the music. The the best word I can use, urgency. And with arrangements most were going for tight feel, tight rhythm section! Always driving, tight sound, with good melodies.
In contrast American bands to me always sounded more relaxed, more chilled. It's funny that some of the most powerful and hard hitting American ones were founded by Europeans!
Me, I grew up on more U.K./European music. Even disco, it was Boney M for me, Jamaicans from Germany, not Donna Summer or Chic who defined the style. All classic rock and pop I like Brits/Europe better. That was until I discovered blues and jazz...
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The 60's were a long time ago. We're stuck in the 80's now. The 80's was all about showmanship. In the UK it was more 'the look' and language. Musicians were singing, playing, stepping. Now that's all broken down.
We were playing racially segregated gigs in rock and R&B in the late 80's outside the US. That stopped in 87'.
What never caught on outside the US were funk bands. Jazz and classical are largely instrumental. A universal language.
Funk and the culture surrounding it is the only thing we can call our own.
Americans are funky people. It's music of the working class. In Japan it's ghetto gigolo music.
Rock is more international. The Beatles were the first rock band. They forged their sound in Germany.
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I was felt the strength of British music generally was in word setting across the board.... we are nationally obsessed with lyrics - this is the country of Shakespeare. By the arrangement paints the lyrics.
whereas in America there were 'singing poets' like Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen...
Actually who was obsessed with lyrics is Russian underground rock movement of 70s - 80s that stayed almost unknown for teh Western countries but that influenced tremendously on the generations of late 70's and 80s.
The thing is that often the lyrics here was at the level of high class poetry and music was only supportive and often very primitive...
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Originally Posted by mrcee
Writing a song about Whitney Houston is timely.
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I remember watching Deep Purple documentary or something, they were asked about lyrics writing process, Ian Gillan said it's pretty much based how the words would add to the rhythm, the sound of it. The meaning is less important than the sound! I thought that's exactly how it should be.
Before I could understand English I already fell in love with Western rock music. What the bands were singin about was just a curiosity for me, but really didn't affect if like a band or not.
Of course now I can check out the lyrics, but it's still not that big of a deal. For example, I don't understand why Bob Dylan is so important to so many people, the music is so and so... If I want a great lyricist, I think Bon Scott wrote the best of 'em, just perfect for rocknroll. I also really enjoy the humor and wit of Louis Jordan tunes and old blues in general. Chuck Berry too! But the music comes first.
Because of that, I could never fit in in my original country. Russians love their poets, music is just to back them up. Screw that!
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Americans are funky people.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Classic R&B is my favorite stuff, but there's more modern artists who put out really good stuff if one takes the time to hunt it up. Kinda like a few genres I can think of.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
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Bluegrass is for hipsters nowdays, anyway
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Ha, you are aware there are African American population here too right?
From time to time I like trying learning some bluegrass crosspicking patterns.
what I do not really dig is staight-ahead country.. something like Johny Cash.
This kind of music scares me a bit (or rather its audience))))
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
What popular music does have now is complex stories sometimes.
Every single thing in the video is real. It's a real a wedding. That's Dicky's ex getting married. The singer is fairly well known in music but he's still a wedding singer.
Dicky hates her husband. The band isn't being recorded live. That's the only thing that isn't real;
This song reminds me to never go back to Japan and to never contact anyone I met in music from 82-87.
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Seems to be pretty smart to me. He didn't sign with a major label and he's making money.
You can always sign with Satan if you're...smart?
He wants to write for TV and movies. He's using the rap game to get in.
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
I hate the game. I don't want anything to do with the music business. Nothing. I'm not sure I even want a blues gig playing for free.Last edited by Stevebol; 04-18-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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Today's reality is much more about micro social groups which actually do not feel themselves micro as they are absolutely self -suffucient an ddo not need to cross with other groups or mainstreamesr (if there are any)... thanks to Internet first of all.
of course it concerns more or less stable econimically and socially places.
What I mean is today people do plenty of incredible things and make groups, meet, communicate and feel fine.
The audience todau is not in the stadium. It's in the interenet. You can play small appratment concerts and have worldwide audie
nce.
All these Fretboard Journal shows, Tiny Desk Concerts etc. I like it. It's connecting people.
Whay I do not like today is that sales activities became too obvious too via interent...
before it was sales agents...
now everybody try to sell oneself on youtube, facebook...
whereever possible... you can't get rid of it.
It very seldom looks like he/she just wants to share - you always feel like it's for attracting attention, promotion etc.
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Originally Posted by Papawooly
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Originally Posted by Jonah
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Regarding Elton John's wish for people to write "better songs"....
There are good songs out there. He probably just doesn't know where to look for them.
Replacement Speaker [newbie advice please)
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