Chord families

[jazzpazz]

Hey. Studying some chords from this guide on this site. When scrolling down to the first major 7 chords(six of them). The ones in root position. Which "family" would you label them in? Maybe family is a wrong word, but Im just trying to get a better understanding. The first three I recognise, which are shell with 5th added drop 2 and drop 3. But the bottom row of 3 chords. What you would call this? Ive seen the first one in bottom row referred to as "standard"

Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary (244 Chord Shapes)

[pamosmusic]

The six major 7 chords in order from top left to bottom right …

Drop 3, drop 2, drop 3, close voicing, drop 2, close voicing.

[ragman1]

jazzpazz -

Forgive me, you're not reading what is there. Those first major chords, etc, are NOT shells 'with added notes'. We've already been through this ad nauseam on the other thread. These are standard, general-use jazz chord shapes. This is what the page says:

'The first group of jazz chords is called “basic”, but they should really be described as “essential”.'

That is the first sentence. The third paragraph says:

'You will learn smaller shapes in the next section, which are easier to play, but these four-note shapes drill the sound of jazz into your ears better than the smaller shapes.'

He posts the general shapes first and THEN the shells because they are not the same. They have their own section.

And so on. It's for you to read, it's all very clear. But I suppose it's up to you.

Which "family" would you label them in?

Haven't you looked up what chord families are? It's very simple - major, minor, dominant, etc. So which family do you think they belong to? Given that the sections on that page you're looking at are labelled precisely in that way!

I give up.

[jazzpazz]

jazzpazz -

Forgive me, you're not reading what is there. Those first major chords, etc, are NOT shells 'with added notes'. We've already been through this ad nauseam on the other thread. These are standard, general-use jazz chord shapes. This is what the page says:

'The first group of jazz chords is called “basic”, but they should really be described as “essential”.'

That is the first sentence. The third paragraph says:

'You will learn smaller shapes in the next section, which are easier to play, but these four-note shapes drill the sound of jazz into your ears better than the smaller shapes.'

He posts the general shapes first and THEN the shells because they are not the same. They have their own section.

And so on. It's for you to read, it's all very clear. But I suppose it's up to you.



Haven't you looked up what chord families are? It's very simple - major, minor, dominant, etc. So which family do you think they belong to? Given that the sections on that page you're looking at are labelled precisely in that way!

I give up.

Ragman. Did you notice my smiley in there? That was a subtle humoristic reference to my other thread. To put it clear text for you: It was a JOKE.

Also if you seriously belive that I asked about chord families as in minor, major etc. Then YOU REALLY SHOULD GIVE UP

[jazzpazz]

The six major 7 chords in order from top left to bottom right …

Drop 3, drop 2, drop 3, close voicing, drop 2, close voicing.

Beautiful answer! Clear precise, right on point. Exactly what I wanted. 10/10! Much appreciated Pano!

[pamosmusic]

Haven't you looked up what chord families are? It's very simple - major, minor, dominant, etc. So which family do you think they belong to? Given that the sections on that page you're looking at are labelled precisely in that way!

I give up.

I think he probably means voicing types … like drop 2, etc.

Though I’m pretty much on board with the rest of your post.

[ragman1]

I think he probably means voicing types … like drop 2, etc.

'the first major 7 chords(six of them). The ones in root position. Which "family" would you label them in?'

I don't call them 'Drop this and that', it's irrelevant. I just play them. Nor have I seen a single guitar site which refers to chord families as anything other than the usual categories. The ones that do deal with Drop chords do not class them as families, the word isn't mentioned.

But piano sites do mention them in the context of families. Like this:

Drop 2 Piano Voicings - The Complete Guide - Piano With Jonny

And if you want to wade through this lot of extreme gobbledegook, good luck!

[pamosmusic]

'the first major 7 chords(six of them). The ones in root position. Which "family" would you label them in?'

I don't call them 'Drop this and that', it's irrelevant. I just play them. Nor have I seen a single guitar site which refers to chord families as anything other than the usual categories. The ones that do deal with Drop chords do not class them as families, the word isn't mentioned.

But piano sites do mention them in the context of families. Like this:

Drop 2 Piano Voicings - The Complete Guide - Piano With Jonny

And if you want to wade through this lot of extreme gobbledegook, good luck!

The rage!

A Drop voicing must have stolen your lunch money when you were in school.

[ragman1]

Rage? There's no rage. I meant what I said, guitar sites don't do families of drop chords. Piano sites do and they're pretty incomprehensible.

Is jazzpazz trying to learn guitar like a piano? He seems to be much more focussed on words and terms than actual playing. There's a place for that, of course, but it's a slightly different world to practical application. And I don't much see the point of knowing all the words if you can't play anything. Otherwise you may as well put the instrument back in its case and start writing exam papers.

[Jimmy blue note]

The naming of chords is a difficult matter
It isn't just one of your holiday games.
You might first think that I'm mad as a hatter
When I tell you a chord has nearly infinite names.

This is one of those Uh Oh threads. Learning chords, their sounds, their use, their useful names, their possible yet misleading names, their useless yet technically proper names, their "joke" names that seem serious in some way, their serious names that are a joke, and their naming process that takes us away from the time spent actually playing them and finding our own context and function.

These kinds of gordian threads are why music schools exist: To provide an institutional and monetary means by which confusion can be perpetuated without necessarily providing the means to become a better musician.

Hey while we're here, what's the best kind of string for my guitar? I can't seem to get mine to sound like Julian Lage [or Wes, or...]

[ragman1]

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with chord naming. I look at a chart and if it says Eb9 or Cm7b5 that's what I play. I can always change it if I feel like it. What's the problem?

[pamosmusic]

Rage? There's no rage. I meant what I said, guitar sites don't do families of drop chords. Piano sites do and they're pretty incomprehensible.

Drop 2 Chords - Chord Chart, Theory & Exercises

[ragman1]

What's that link for? The word 'family' or 'families' does not appear on that page. At all.

[pamosmusic]

What's that link for? The word 'family' or 'families' does not appear on that page. At all.

Oh okay so it’s the word “family” that you’re up in arms about.

Can’t say I follow why that would make the concept more or less confusing.

[ragman1]

No, it's the word family that jazzpazz is on about! You probably need to re-read the whole thread a bit.

'Also if you seriously belive that I asked about chord families as in minor, major etc. Then YOU REALLY SHOULD GIVE UP'

[pamosmusic]

No, it's the word family that jazzpazz is on about! You probably need to re-read the whole thread a bit.

'Also if you seriously belive that I asked about chord families as in minor, major etc. Then YOU REALLY SHOULD GIVE UP'

I don’t know … seems like I answered the question in the second post.

Could it be you’re … um …hijacking the thread for your own purposes?

[ragman1]

No, I'm not, of course.

You did answer his question correctly and he was very pleased. But I looked up the words 'chord family' and every definition I found was the usual major, minor, dom, etc. Every guitar site said that. Nothing about Drop chords belonging to their own special families at all anywhere.

Then I looked at some piano sites. The link I posted did use the word in terms of a particular key but, as you can see if you look at it, it's unbelievably complex and tortuous. Apparently jazzpazz was thinking on those lines. And for some reason you picked up on that.

Good for you but it wasn't in any of the guitar places I looked at. And this is about guitar, not piano.

[Jimmy blue note]

What's that link for? The word 'family' or 'families' does not appear on that page. At all.

Rules for polite engagement:
Don't talk about religion
Don't talk about income
Don't talk about family... and don't even mention it

... oh brother!

[ragman1]

Jeez, if I had a buck for every time I used the word family, I'd be...

[Jimmy blue note]

Jeez, if I had a buck for every time I used the word family, I'd be...

I hear you, brother

[rpjazzguitar]

There are 24 ways to arrange four notes.

Are these the choices?

Root position and three more inversions.
Drop 2 in root position and three more inversions
Drop 3 ditto for the rest
Drop 4
Drop 2+3
Drop 2+4

I find this hard to even think about. I'd much rather just see four numbers, 1537, or whatever. Thinking "second inversion Drop 2+4" makes my head hurt.

Actually, I shouldn't ask. It doesn't matter to me. I wasn't taught about them, I don't think about chords in this way and try as I might, I can't see any value to knowing which are which, for guitar.

In fact, the only practical thing I've ever heard about them for guitar is one famous player who told me that he doesn't play drop 2s. I assumed he thinks they're too vanilla. But, in actual fact, he does sometimes play drop 2s.

To be clear: I am aware that there's value when arranging horns.

[Jimmy blue note]

There are 24 ways to arrange four notes.

To be clear: I am aware that there's value when arranging horns.

Ewe said it!

[ragman1]

I hear you, brother

Hallelujah!

[Jimmy blue note]

I find this hard to even think about. I'd much rather just see four numbers, 1537, or whatever. .

Hey there rpjazzguitar. I'm with you. When I learned about all the possibilities, it was my greatest organizational priority to know what the voices were and I worked out all the permutations according to the 4 voices aligned bass to soprano, like you. I still think of voicings that way.

Gotta say that when I started to study voice leading within chordal groups where the inversions were arranged within the system of drop organization, it not only made sense but the smooth voice lead movement happens most effortlessly if I know my chords in the drop groupings.

Numerical organization is great for being aware of voices, drop chords provided me with the shorthand for voice leading on the fly. I use both and I found it useful for me to know the hows and whys of these two ways of thinking. Well worth my efforts.

We all have our way of making music out of organization... and keeping the chaos sounding good, right?

[dasein]

There are 24 ways to arrange four notes.

Are these the choices?

Root position and three more inversions.
Drop 2 in root position and three more inversions
Drop 3 ditto for the rest
Drop 4
Drop 2+3
Drop 2+4

I find this hard to even think about. I'd much rather just see four numbers, 1537, or whatever. Thinking "second inversion Drop 2+4" makes my head hurt.

Actually, I shouldn't ask. It doesn't matter to me. I wasn't taught about them, I don't think about chords in this way and try as I might, I can't see any value to knowing which are which, for guitar.

In fact, the only practical thing I've ever heard about them for guitar is one famous player who told me that he doesn't play drop 2s. I assumed he thinks they're too vanilla. But, in actual fact, he does sometimes play drop 2s.

To be clear: I am aware that there's value when arranging horns.

Yeah, I tend to think of it as both a name and an intervallic arrangement. The name is really just a shorthand for communicating with other guitar players ("Drop 2" is a lot shorter to say than "1573"). But in my head, the more important thing is the makeup of intervals.

Relationship of bottom note to top note is most important, it's what makes the moment to moment counterpoint when playing chords. But a trick I learned from Joe Diorio is to use harmonized scales of chords as a shortcut to learn intervals within a scale as well. If you can harmonize drop 2s in a major scale all over the neck in root position, you automatically know how to play fifths, sevenths, and tenths in that scale. Any time you can connect bits of fretboard knowledge like that, it tends to stick better.