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Originally Posted by KingKong
I'm being a bit facetious, but I think the OP is looking for chords that will give harmonic motion to the Bm7b5, and there are a myriad different ways to do that.
To me I'd have to know the bigger picture of the whole tune. Taken in isolation it's hard to say that one thing will work more than anything else!
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01-05-2023 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
I know people might laugh to hear me say it, but there is such a thing as overthinking.
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
What you say confirms my opinion of how harmony and counterpoint are taught at music schools: it's passive knowledge. It's never really used. People studying classical music don't play from lead sheets and they rarely do a harmonic analysis because they want to play something on the guitar. If one really wants to grasp it, one has to use it.
I believe alterations are most effective when used sparingly. I don't think in terms of alterations. The fewer you use, the more freedom you have when soloing.
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Originally Posted by princeplanetOriginally Posted by Christian Miller
A flaming minor, F(flaming X), B flaming m7b flaming 5, E flaming 7b9
Diatonic chords in A flaming minor.
So F flaming major 7th is the obvious chord here.
This is like lesson flaming 1 of idiot's guide to Jazz theory, what on earth is wrong with you all today?!
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Nice, but I prefer it in A friggin'.
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This is what I think Christian Miller means when he is 'mad at theory'.....
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Altering the dominant will create more tension and thus more of a sense of "motion" if you resolve to the tonic, but otherwise, generally speaking, you will have less of a sense of motion the more alterations you use. The reason is that extended chords, including sixths and sevenths, are inherently ambiguous. For example, C maj. 7 can be thought of as a combination of the C maj. triad and the E min. triad. If one uses a lot of alterations, what happens is that you get a kind of sense of the music "floating". Sometimes I'll think with compositions like this, that the music goes up and down, but it doesn't go anywhere.
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Looking at it:
am7, fMaj7, bm7flt5,e7
this tune is basically blue bossa, but ( it it were in key of Am) that tune goes:
am7, dm7, bm7flt5, e7.
Fmaj7 and dm7 share 3 of the 4 chord notes, so basically the same chord....
so if it works for one of the greatest jazz standards in the book, it works for this tune, whatever it is. Be gone with all these foul sounding random substitutions!!
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Originally Posted by KingKong
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
'How to create a discordant cacophony" then yes!
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by KingKong
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Originally Posted by KingKong
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Originally Posted by KingKong
Do you actually know what music sounds like?
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Wait I’ve got it! King Kong learned jazz harmony from the great Hans
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
(ps lets not forget that musical debate is fun, can be tongue in cheek etc etc)
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Originally Posted by KingKong
bluesy. I suppose BB always put the sweetness in the blues.
Guess my guitar teacher got it wrong all those years ago (or my memory is fallible, no can’t be that.)
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Here’s a good example. Big fat bVI7#11 in bar 9 of the form
Also night train
but that’s a major blues
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
So the beauty of jazz music for me is the way it is different to 'normal' music by the implied and subtle deviations from standard 'nursery rhyme' theory.
Play Cmaj7th not Cmaj and you instantly get that added air of mystique and subtlety. The trick I think is to deviate enough from the nursery rhyme style enough, but not too much to make it hard on the ears.
So I think each person has their own point on the nursery rhyme -> cacophony spectrum where they feel that music becomes too jarring. Mine I reckon is quite near the nursery rhyme side, if yours is further towards the cacophony side, no worries as long as you like the music.
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Oh bloody Round Midnight another bVI7 party
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Originally Posted by KingKong
I don’t see bVI7 as very complicated or out there really. It’s got the b5 blue note in it. Play
x 6 5 6 x x
x 5 4 5 x x
3 5 5 3 x x
Blues m8
in fact isn’t there a song that goes like that? I think it’s a Clapton thing iirc.
anyway it’s in a ton of standards.
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Play
x x 5 3 3 x
x x 3 2 3 x
x 6 5 6 x x
x 5 4 2 3 x
for a more classical vibe
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Oh and my last post about nursery rhymes etc, that was more of a general philosophical comment than one against your suggested chord.
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Originally Posted by KingKong
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
that would be E 7th .... completely wrong, discordant flaming cocophany.
F flaming 7th, not too bad, staying true to the F major vibe.
KA PAF info please
Today, 11:52 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos