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Originally Posted by pcjazz
Mr Stout is my source for the GVE connection but it may well be via Reuss now I think about it. Maybe Jonathan will chip in?
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11-28-2021 05:44 PM
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Ha, love that!
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There is some good Freddie on this record. He’s very audible during the bass solo here at 3:10, sounds mostly like one note to me, perhaps with the odd 2-note chord creeping in occasionally.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I love quarter note comping, for a short time i was spending at least 15 minutes a day on quarter note comping trying to work it up to tempo. Im gonna get back to that. Heres a shot at Cherokee with two note voicings
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George Bensons quarter note here is fantastic
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Donovan, turn down your metronome!
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Originally Posted by mastodonovan
I must try it but it seems playing a longer accent on 2 and 4 would help this post war legato style and probably acts as a corrective to the natural tendency to ‘snatch’ at 2 and 4 (much as we ask students to accent the ‘ands’ in their lines.) I’ll give it a go!
That said, the two feel is stylistically appropriate in some instances. This is what I would think of a classic 1930s-40s American Rhythm feel just for reference. Different from FG’s feel even during this era. Much more ‘in 2’
(this is actually 1940s iirc)
Another example from a different guitarist
So it’s not a 2 4 accent per se but rather a slightly shorter chord on 2 and 4: at least to my ears. Makes it ‘pop’ a little more and sounds like an accent. FG did not appear to do this most of time (except when deliberately playing a sort of old time stride feel, which he does on some of the Savory recordings.)
Even in ‘gypsy jazz’ (which as Denis Chang points out did not exist really in the 1930s and 40s) the rhythm section tends to be a little less accented to my ears than is common in Manouche Le pompe styles today:
Its not wrong for these styles - actually it’s wrong to play a flat four here; but you have to understand how to do the accent in the right way and most beginners think it’s a different in volume; even some accomplished jazz players unfamiliar with the style. It’s not hard to fix though.
The two-feel tends to creep in with faster tempos in general with this type of thing and is very much a stylistic trait of bluegrass, Manouche jazz etc. FG seems to resist this tendency even in the early recordings. The ‘slightly longer 2 and 4’ tip is probably a great way to work on this. Sounding good on the recording!
The other thing is Freddie seems to have a very ‘fast’ strum to my ears; notes in chords are almost sounded simultaneously. This attack characteristic varies quite a bit between swing rhythm players….Last edited by Christian Miller; 11-29-2021 at 04:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Thanks for posting that vid of Benson subbing for Christian....
Great example of background dance music movin on.
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Yeah, we've kind of expanded away from discussing tenor line playing, though it has all been interesting. I'd like to hear others here taking a turn, in the tradition set by Jeff and I by just going for it, see what happens.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
(Some players do use a right hand accent too, but it's usually in the speed of the strum rather than the overall dynamic.)
These are actually professional contemporary/modern jazz players I'm talking about, probably much better players overall than me, who ask me for a rhythm lesson or when we have a go at playing an old school style tune together! It's nothing to do with their musicianship or technique; it's just experience of that specific music. There's comparable stuff if you are learning to play funk or samba patterns etc...
In fact, the more correct accent will probably creep in naturally! It's a bit like one of the best ways to work on swing 8ths is to avoid trying to swing. The body picks up on what the ear is hearing often without need for conscious effort, if everything is relaxed...
What may be more of a long term problem is efficient biomechanics which you really need if you are playing rhythm for, say, 3 or 4 swing dance sets a night. I used to do this... It's physical work! You need a good relaxed strumming hand...
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Get your finger out - you only need one - and play something
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Free is reserved for whatever stuff that I’m obsessed with that no one in their right mind would part with money to hear.
That said I haven’t done the one note thing for ages, I had a quick crack at it today, a bit rusty.
It’s the sort of thing I used to practice on gigs when I was bored after the fourth consecutive hour of medium tempo 4/4.I reckon that’s how FG worked on it too. I don’t think there was ever much need to practice this stuff at home, I was playing 200+ shows of it a year.
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There you go
You can hear I’m doing the one note thing here at the start, moving into full chords towards the end
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Ah, you were young then
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Specifically: "For his part, Green continued to refine his approach to rhythm guitar throughout his career, which later included elements learned from Benny Goodman’s guitarist Allan Reuss, but most importantly was based on years of dedication to his craft as well as devotion to the tradition of swing rhythm guitar."
I believe I have seen a more detailed account of their relationship in a biographical piece on Green, but haven't been able to locate it recently.
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Some of Freddie’s great playing on these 2 albums that not many people talk about. Small setting with some of the best cats. I love these 2 albums. You can hear Freddie clearly.
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Trying the single note tenor line for the first chorus and some chords in the second
Cheap floating humbuckers
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