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I know there has been some discussion on this forum regarding the Mick Goodrick Mr Goodchord Volumes and that they have been out of print for some time. I have access to a scanner at work that can scan through its feed tray on the top of the copier. Wondering if anyone out there would mind me borrowing their Goodchord volumes to scan in. I don't know what legal climate this would put us all in, as it is copyrighted material, however, it's been out of publication and therefore there is no legal means of purchasing the book and thereby giving money to the proper author and publisher. Please let me know if you would mind my borrowing a copy in order to scan in a version for myself. Thanks in advance. Also, if this post gets taken down its no big deal. I realize the area of the law that this request puts us all in. So if this post disappears, no harm no foul and I won't touch the subject again. Thanks all!
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03-14-2017 07:47 PM
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You would probably be best served to contact Truthhertz through the forum here. He has the most information regarding the status of the books and knows the author personally.
Cheers!
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I'm exploring the possibilities of Sher publishing reissuing the volumes of the almanacs, and all of Mick's published works if they would. This would put the material at easy access to everyone since Sher is widely distributed, and a great publisher by the way.
If there were a digital copy floating around out there, it'd probably torpedo any possibilities of that happening. I just posted something about this on the thread I've got running in this forum.
I'd encourage anyone interested in urging Sher in this endeavour to write to Sher and throw in your two cents.
I'd also try to discourage dissemination of scanned digital copies at this point. But do what you must. It'd just be nice if a good publisher felt it was worth their time, and everyone could buy it (hard and/or download) with a benefit to the author.
Is anyone using this material? Care to share your progress on the Goodchord thread?
Thanks
David
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It sounds to me like this fellow Goodrick had some friends in the Boston-area academic computing community, at some point, and they got to start talking music theory. And one of them, probably said, "Gee it would be simple enough to write a program, to generate the permutations of these voice movements". And it sounds like they went ahead and did it.
Don't you think this is what happened? Lots of people have commented on unplayable note combinations, and the vast number of combinations, without any real sense of being able to figure out what is usable vs. what is not.
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Originally Posted by goldenwave77
What resulted was something that is permutation based but organized to allow musical concepts to be employed in ways that musicians, especially guitarists don't even consider.
Of course this can be done on a spread sheet these days. There's a member on the forum who's been putting together an app. That's good and fine, and if you wanted to put these together, you could take the guiding voice leading rules and do it yourself. That's what Mick did. Go ahead, anyone is welcome to do that.
But having the volumes, having this material, whether it's generated by your own spreadsheet program or whether it's coming from a book that's got this worked out for you, is not the point.
The point is musicians have long looked at their choice of chords in any particular situation as being determined by a set of chord families (drop 2, drop 3, etc) and the movement of roots tends to follow with root in bass position or a choice of inversion based on those small families of chord families.
Much less often do we think in terms of voices moving linearally, with roots moving within the chord position to assure a melodic flow of each voice. This is the real beauty of the book: to provide an exhaustive compendium of chord flow based on root movement in cycles, in seconds, thirds, fourths, etc.
If you begin to work with this material, you might learn that it's not necessarily useful to read through the pages in a linear way, but you may begin to acquire a sense of chord movement that is unlike anything anyone else has done and imparts a sense of melodic and harmonic flow through a set of changes.
Piano players can play this way; they can see the voices laid out. Guitarists don't have the luxury of linear lay out so there is a solution, use a fixed chord voicing and move it around the fingerboard following the harmony.
The almanacs give you a way of "seeing" root flow within the chords, developing a sense of melodic options that are largely the realm of pianists or composers.
As far as the unplayability of some combinations, there are solutions. Fingerstyle players have more options with this material. As a compositional tool, they can all be used. Dyads can be used. They can be played linearally as arpeggios. Not everything is of the grab and strum mindset.
These books are about imaginative approaches to linear harmony and they're written so no permutation is excluded.
If it sounds like a computer's work, yes you can generate this material on a computer. But learning to audiate, visualize and turn it into practice is a function of organization and format. That's what these volumes do.
That's what Mick was thinking when he discovered ways of getting around "traditional" chord harmony practices and started to find out just how big that possibility was.
The result is 3 volumes that he admits he will never really scratch the surface of, yet for those who see the limitations of the drop 2 grab and play approach, there is a collected set of possibilities.
There's more room for discussing these revelations on the other thread on the forum. Please feel free to visit and share your discoveries.
David
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If the guy who wrote this, Goodrick himself, admits that he'll never get around to scratching the surface, where does that lead everyone else?!
Is this organized in some way, that is practical, helpful?..because honestly the idea of 450 pp. of densely laid out chord movements, is enough for ten lifetimes....I've heard people make the same comment about Ted Greene's stuff....literally pages and pages of stuff.
He's a full-time serious player, and I don't belittle his playing, just the practicality of the resource.
It's a little like leading someone to Widener Library at Harvard (5-6 million volumes), and telling them, "Just start reading...you're bound to come across something worthwhile."
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Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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Originally Posted by goldenwave77
If you're looking for a book that tells you how to play an arrangement of "Here's That Rainy Day" in Ab, then DO NOT BUY or ACQUIRE THIS BOOK. It's for the inquiring mind who has a working baseline of melodic command on the instrument and yearns for a glimpse into the larger picture.
A good teacher can tell you ALL about what they can do.
A great discoverer can give you insight so what they themselves discovered can lead to further discoveries.
Don't make the mistake of thinking of these books as method books. They are not that; not by a long shot.
They are almanacs. This is a map room. This is not a guided tour. This is a reference library. This is not a YouTube video. This is an honest outlay of harmonic movement of 3 and 4 part chords for those who DON'T want just a lesson on how to.
And goldenwave77, the beauty of it is if it's not where you're at, you don't need to even acknowledge its existence.
It's a discussion in the corner of the library between a small group of enthusiasts who've wondered "Why is my chord choice so stale? Can somebody show me how pianists get such flowing lines?" "Oh they voice lead. They can see lines converging and flowing with each other." "Oh? But you CAN'T do that on guitar. People say the format of the guitar prevents and limits us to drop 2 and walking bass lines." "No it can be done, you can work out the voice leading possibilites. Classical composers do that when writing for guitar. Ever play Bach?" "No but you can't do that in REAL time" " Yes you can if you write it out" "Forget that. I have better things to do, like practice, or have a computer do it" "Well... you can get the almanacs, they're out there" "But do I need to make sense out of it myself?"
Yes.
Originally Posted by goldenwave77
The author is not looking to limit your playing with one concept, he's trying to open up the possibilities with a resource.
Do you know how to get around the changes of a piece off book? Have you ever gotten bored with your options when it comes to playing over a piece? Does it intrigue you that in your comping, the root can move within a set of chords, within the SATB structure of a linear arrangement? Are you fascinated by sounds where you can't identify the chords of yet the harmony is just mysteriously right?
Well if you aren't in that space, then maybe a raw resource of harmonic possibility is not the best thing at this point.
Look on this thread:
Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?
There are some pages and examples, lots of questions and answers. Read it if you're curious and see if it's of interest. I'd be happy to see you there!
Good luck
David
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Well, I took your suggestion and went through the thread "Anybody Using the Goodchord Voice Leading Books".
After reading that thread and the comments in it, I'll steer clear.
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I have posted this offer in the For Sale part of the forum.
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Hello guys!
Could a good Samaritan scan Volume 2 of Mr. Goodrick's Almanacs? We know that these Almanacs will not be republished. It's been 20 years since its publication, and I've heard nothing about it. This material could be building an even greater legacy if it were available to the younger generation of the guitar. Music is a good of humanity, and can not serve petty ideals of profit. Of course, if I could pay for a copy I would pay, just as I paid for "Crative Chordal Harmony" and "The Advancing Guitarrist." But I simply missed the hopes of having a copy of the second volume of the Almanacs. Please, anyone?
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Mick's got a German publisher who's taken on his entire output and catalog. Great news. Things are in the works and I'll let you know.
I hope to have good news (or books) soon.
David
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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I may comb through the vol 2 and post some interesting pages on the Almanac thread. I always look for others to post the results of their work with this material. Always interesting to find ambitious adventurists.
David
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I have them and am willing to part with them. Just think, you can go to triad heaven AND own an original!
$1,000.00 per volume, non-refundable (of course).
But seriously, if you want to go to triad heaven, why not see if you can get through Leavitt Volume 3 triads and melodicized triads first before you get into Harmonic Mechanisms or Mr. Goodchord?
And if you are a jazz guitarist, you may want to ask yourself, "what is the utility of this"? (the ROI so to speak). It's a big investment in hard work, folks. How does it align with the works of Charlie, Wes, Joe, George, Pat and Pat, and John?
Always look before you leap. IMO.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
There have been very realistic expectations expressed by all in these threads regarding their value in terms of ROI etc., even addressing the author's admission that it's a big task for him. No one ever claimed that this was an "efficient" method toward sounding like Wes or Joe.
How does every thread get reduced to that conversation? How boring could life possibly be?
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Originally Posted by goldenwave77
I've gotten other stuff out of that book since, but I'd have paid the cover price just for page 7.
So, to me, if I could get one good idea out of something like the Goodchord books, I'd consider that worth it.
I also tried working out a cycle on my own. That was a valuable exercise as well.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Honestly, I don't think Joe Pass or Wes would have had any use for this material. It's kind of useless in that perspective.
There are a lot of things we can't imagine in the present world we live in. Mick's work has come out of not being limited by other people's assumptions, and people who do find the great utility in this are those who find their voice despite the limitations of other people's imaginations.
Count Wayne Krantz, Bill Frisell, Ben Monder are three of many who have used Mick's box of matches to light their own fires.
If you ask certain questions of your own playing, things like "Where can I go?" "Where can I find the harmonies I feel are there yet are so elusive in my own vocabulary?" "Why do I feel trapped by the uses of harmony I'm steeped in... is there something else?" then one might be inspired to explore.
There are few sources for rigorous students of possibility. This is one of the big ones.
We are defined by the questions we ask. Don't judge too harshly others who don't want the same thing as you, that's all.
David
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
And I went beyond Wes and Joe, didn't I? I traced the historical trajectory of jazz guitar from 1940 until now. Do I need to fill in the blanks with more top drawer player names to make the point? Somehow I don't think it would make a difference to you.
And you didn't address my Leavitt book 3 challenge to the guitar nerd, guitar completist, triad heaven journey either.
I'm pretty sure this is about MUSIC, not being a guitar completist mathematician.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
You know, typed words don't convey intent very well sometimes. I was making light, not mocking. And I wasn't "judging" if that means condemning. But I'm pretty sure that I have the right to an opinion.
Nothing wrong with challenging oneself. But I think that Leavitt's Volume 3 is enough. I think the Berklee level 8 exam is enough on triad cycles. Actually, I think its more than enough.
Harmonic Mechanisms, Chord Chemistry, Mr. Goodchord are all completist works as far as I'm concerned. That is, if one believes that they need to learn them from stem to stern. Picking up some capability here and there? Thats great, but that's different.
I'm a pragmatist. We all only have so much time. Nobody wants to hear a human chord machine. Listeners want to hear melodies first and foremost, and yes a few nice harmonies too. That may be bad news for chord completist nerds, buts it's the truth. Remember the old joke?;
"What's the difference between a blues guitarist and a jazz guitarist? One knows 3 chords and has an audience of 1000, the other knows 1000 chords and has an audience of 3".
Why did these books go out of print? Is Harmonic Mechanisms still in print? It may be but I don't recall.
So let's be practical, let's point to some musical examples where the player exploited triad heaven to the max with great musical/artistic results that music lovers have celebrated and rewarded with praise and patronization. The rubber meets the road proof is music, not philosophy.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Adults can have conversations and talk about things, even debate, but CHILDREN call names and speak of another's PERSON or their INTERESTS with the kind of disdain implicit in terms like "triad heaven". This was a straightforward conversation between people who are actually INTERESTED in the topic. It's fine to discuss it, but to come in and snipe is straight-up trolling BS. Let your conversation and arguments stand on their own without the playground barbs.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
But I digress.
Yes triad heaven is what I'd call Van Eps' work. In my opinion it's overkill. So what? Same for Ted Greene. In my opinion there are so many impractical and hence useless voicings and grips. If everybody needed all those to play, or even master, the instrument, hardly anyone would bother with the instrument. Some people just take things to the extreme, and that's how I see these works to varying degrees, not complete degrees.
Berklee Press has a new book (relatively) and it's called The Practical Jazz Guitarist. In my opinion, it's about time.
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
You'd be on-topic if this were a thread on "Fastest way to make money playing jazz", "Most efficient ways to sound like Joe ,Wes or Pat etc.", "List of best books for learning chords" etc. This is not a debate thread. There's a distinction.
You're derailing and trolling.
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
1979 L5 CES - Sweden ~$7k
Yesterday, 03:38 PM in For Sale