Anyone not care for chord melody?

**snoskier63** · 04-23-2016, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

AKA Joe Pass, who made this a standard requirement for anybody claiming to be a solid jazz guitar player.

While you are correct that Joe Pass made a career out of solo guitar and influenced countless others I don't believe he started until around 1960 or 1961. In 1955 Barney Kessel set the bar very high with his solo accompaniment of Julie London on Julie is her name. To my knowledge that was the first time a guitaist did it all. Kenny Burrell may disagree, but he can take that up with Barney when they meet again.

**lawson-stone** · 04-23-2016, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by snoskier63

While you are correct that Joe Pass made a career out of solo guitar and influenced countless others I don't believe he started until around 1960 or 1961. In 1955 Barney Kessel set the bar very high with his solo accompaniment of Julie London on Julie is her name. To my knowledge that was the first time a guitaist did it all. Kenny Burrell may disagree, but he can take that up with Barney when they meet again.

I certainly won't say anything to detract from the artistry of barney Kessel! He certainly did set the bar high, and the clip posted is superb.

I think I'm reacting to a tendency to dis Joe Pass a little bit.

But I am the last guy on the planet who will put down Kessel. And for sure, his work with Julie London puts him in a category occupied by very few guitarists: to accompany a top tier talent vocalist solo!

Very few in that club, and Kessel is a charter member.

**christianm77** · 04-23-2016, 12:51 PM

Just got the new Pasquale Grasso masterclass video today which is geared towards the solo side of things.

Listening to him play, he just makes solo playing sound completely effortless and flowing. It's no longer 'oh a guitar playing on it's own, well done' and more 'wow, that's some really cool music.'

I think to pull this off in this way it's essential to have some kind of classical chops on the guitar, and PG is an exceptional classical player in his own right. I'm not sure a lot of people, however musical, have had the technique to play truly pianist solo stuff.

I like to contrast it with Bernstein's approach, which is also brilliant in a completely different way - guitaristic, and doesn't even attempt to emulate the piano.

Also I feel I should mention the incredible solo mastery of Russell Malone, and of course, George Benson, who also make a very strong case for solo jazz guitar...

But what they have in common is that they are improvisors, not performers of arrangements.

**christianm77** · 04-23-2016, 12:57 PM

In fact, thinking about it, I would go as far to say that the golden age for solo jazz guitar is actually right now. The level of players doing this including Kurt Rosenwinkel, Jonathan Kreisberg, Julian LAge and so on is just incredible. It's just taken for granted you have to be strong solo as well as in an ensemble now....

**snoskier63** · 04-23-2016, 01:23 PM

You will never hear me dis Joe Pass. My only problem with him is that he moved on before I discovered his music, so I was never able to see him play live.

**grahambop** · 04-23-2016, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by snoskier63

You will never hear me dis Joe Pass. My only problem with him is that he moved on before I discovered his music, so I was never able to see him play live.

I went to a gig by guitarist Nigel Price a couple of years ago and just as he started, a fire alarm went off and we all had to go outside until the fire brigade came ( turned out a faulty microwave had set off the alarm). So I took the opportunity to chat with Nigel while we stood outside the venue, and it turned out Joe Pass was his big hero, but he had never seen him live. When I said I'd seen Joe loads of times from the front table at Ronnie Scotts, he was very envious!

**voxss** · 04-23-2016, 07:00 PM

**targuit** · 04-23-2016, 07:37 PM

I find that the greatest artists are like a beautiful garden with handsome plants that each express their own colors, form and grace in an individual way. But I do think that Pasquale Grasso has the chops and musicianship to perhaps "take it to the next level".

**Hep To The Jive** · 04-23-2016, 08:16 PM

I'm not going to say anything negative about Pasquale Grasso as a player (I'd be a fool and damn me), he's obviously great talent and his technique is mind boggling, but that's exactly chord-melody style that I'm not really interested in. The classical guitar- based. I dunno why, but it just doesn't give me a musical fix.

The one example that really moved me as far as solo guitar performance goes, and I could listen over and over again without getting tired, was My Ideal on acoustic guitar by John Scofield. But I can't find it anywhere anymore, it was on YouTube...

**targuit** · 04-23-2016, 08:31 PM

There is a video of the five or six finalists playing in a 2015 Jazz Guitarist competition where he just plays head over heels above his very competent competition. A bit like an old Michel Schumaker driving a Ferrari in a dune buggy race.

destinytot · 04-23-2016, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

And where should I find this chamber music ensemble in rural central Kentucky?

Also... I don't want to get into writing parts. I am a hobby player with a demanding day job, a 10 acre horse farm and a very active family life and social circle. No way am I taking time away from basic practice to learn to write parts, bro!

You guys who live in urban music meccas have no clue what it's like trying to do this stuff in the rural midwest and south.

Sorry!

**christianm77** · 04-23-2016, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

I'm not going to say anything negative about Pasquale Grasso as a player (I'd be a fool and damn me), he's obviously great talent and his technique is mind boggling, but that's exactly chord-melody style that I'm not really interested in. The classical guitar- based. I dunno why, but it just doesn't give me a musical fix.

The one example that really moved me as far as solo guitar performance goes, and I could listen over and over again without getting tired, was My Ideal on acoustic guitar by John Scofield. But I can't find it anywhere anymore, it was on YouTube...

I do know what you mean a bit re PG - not sure if that's the direction I want to push my playing in.... It is super classical, not just in technique but also in that it's a historical approach to jazz. Contained....

**christianm77** · 04-23-2016, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by targuit

There is a video of the five or six finalists playing in a 2015 Jazz Guitarist competition where he just plays head over heels above his very competent competition. A bit like an old Michel Schumaker driving a Ferrari in a dune buggy race.

I don't know if that would work out on a sand dune haha.

PG has his thing that he is pursuing to a fantastically high level. Other players have other things. The difficult thing IMO is finding your thing and going for it 100%....

destinytot · 04-23-2016, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

...but also in that it's a historical approach to jazz. Contained....

I admire that because it's unique on guitar, but I enjoy his playing more when he's part of a group.

**voxss** · 04-24-2016, 03:59 AM

destinytot · 04-24-2016, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by voxss

What a treat to watch and hear - thank you! Vince Guaraldi and Bola Sete blend so beautifully.

**voxss** · 04-24-2016, 05:04 AM

recent discovery for me Destiny...Vince and Bole..im just trying to transcribe guaraldis Theme to Grace..having no luck so ill send it off to a lady in malaysia who does it for $20....

**targuit** · 04-24-2016, 06:11 AM

Lol! There were so many mistakes in that post as I was in a rush and a bit of mental fog. I was trying to think of the title of the competition - I believe "thelonius monk" - the name of a lesser rank competition in racing, like what we have here with kids building their own vehicles - a "soap box derby" race....

See what happens when you get old. I'll tell you about it when I get there.

destinytot · 04-24-2016, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by voxss

recent discovery for me Destiny...Vince and Bole..im just trying to transcribe guaraldis Theme to Grace..having no luck so ill send it off to a lady in malaysia who does it for $20....

If it's OK to ask, where are you stuck? I'd like to help if I can.

**voxss** · 04-24-2016, 07:12 AM

heres the FULL music...Blows me away . Religion and JAzz..rare combination...think Ellington did some......

**matt.guitarteacher** · 04-24-2016, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by voxss

Wow great stuff for a Sunday morning. Thanks!

For all the talk of guitarists being covered up by piano players, that is such an excellent example of a sensitive pianist playing with guitar (a nylon string even). Not just volume or voicings either, but Guaraldi's feel and phrasing also compliments in a very tasteful way without overshadowing while he's comping.

Thanks for posting.

**targuit** · 04-24-2016, 08:14 AM

Voxss -

That is a lovely melody in this Vince Guaraldi tune Theme to Grace. The good news is that it is not difficult at all. I don't have Transcribe, but I think I could do this relatively quickly. What is the specific problem? Do you read music fluently? Are you seeking a guitar version of the song or scored for piano?

Here's another version that is beautifully arranged and performed.

**NSJ** · 04-24-2016, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Just got the new Pasquale Grasso masterclass video today which is geared towards the solo side of things.

Listening to him play, he just makes solo playing sound completely effortless and flowing. It's no longer 'oh a guitar playing on it's own, well done' and more 'wow, that's some really cool music.'

I think to pull this off in this way it's essential to have some kind of classical chops on the guitar, and PG is an exceptional classical player in his own right. I'm not sure a lot of people, however musical, have had the technique to play truly pianist solo stuff.

I like to contrast it with Bernstein's approach, which is also brilliant in a completely different way - guitaristic, and doesn't even attempt to emulate the piano.

Also I feel I should mention the incredible solo mastery of Russell Malone, and of course, George Benson, who also make a very strong case for solo jazz guitar...

But what they have in common is that they are improvisors, not performers of arrangements.

I remember showing my teacher a PG performance, and his response was something like "yeah he's really got that Chuck Wayne down."

Chuck Wayne = hybrid picking apparently ( although PG did formally study classical guitar in Italy too )

as for classical technique really helping, I tend to agree. I've kind of falling in love with nylon . But it really requires a dedicated right hand technique . I'm working my ass off trying to get there . I've completely abandoned the pick.

Even though the technique is strictly fingers, the nails suffer one switching between steel string and I even though the technique is strictly fingers, the nails suffer when switching between steel string and nylon.

My teacher was a master classical and jazz guitarist, and the classical right hand technique really helped his solo guitar . The last 25 years of his professional career, when the jazz gigs started to dry up, he said he made most of his money playing solo guitar: amplified nylon string classical . He had a solo repertoire of at least five hours at any given moment that was unsurpassed: jazz standards, Great American songbook, Baroque and Classical pieces, Spanish numbers, Bossas and sambas, Latin Jazz.

One time he was playing electric guitar for a series of gigs with the singer Peggy Lee. It was at a small jazz club, and he would arrive early before anybody else find it empty room and breakout is classical guitar and work on his classical repertoire to make sure it didn't get rusty. One day he did that for an hour by himself all alone. As soon as he finished he heard a noise. He turned around and saw Peggy Lee. She had watched him practice the entire time without his knowledge, and was in tears with how beautiful it sounded . She immediately demanded that he perform an opening set solo on classical guitar with whatever repertoire he wanted to play.

Anytime Joe Pass would come to visit, he would always demand for him to break out the classical guitar and Joe will just sit back and listen. Inevitably, Joe would remark , " Man what you please is beautiful art and what I play in comparison is bullahit". Joe was him apparently very humble and self-deprecating in that way .

**targuit** · 04-24-2016, 09:20 AM

What was your teacher's name? Is he no longer with us, given that you refer to him in past tense. Very interesting and touching stories.

Classical technique never hurts. There are limits in the upper range of tempos, but one can always adopt a hybrid style for very uptempo music. I think nothing beats fingerpicking for ballads and medium tempo stuff. Do you happen to know what classical guitar he used and how he amplified it for his solo gigs?

**NSJ** · 04-24-2016, 09:38 AM

He's retired. no longer plays. Unless he was playing with the CSO grant park symphony or lyric Opera, he didn't use any of his expensive guitars for local solo performances like corporate gigs and so forth.

He also, I forgot to mention, convinced Jimmy Wyble that for what he wanted to do ( improvise counterpoint on guitar ) that he really need to sit down and formally study classical guitar especially the right hand technique . When Jimmy finally said yes, he flew out to LA and had Jimmy meet with somebody from Ramirez and got him a decent classical guitar. I think that Jimmy wound up studying in LA with that famous Brazilian guy who played with modern Jazz Quartet and other groups