Luthier asks for advice regarding neck mounted pickups

[Raven8R]

Aloha All! Am new to forums, but fairly well versed in building techniques, etc (after about 75 builds, but only 5 archtop guitars).

For my first 5 archtop guitars, I made them acoustic and had it in my mind that if anyone asked, I would upgrade them to electric if they wanted... "No Problem", right? Recently, my nephew asked me to add an electric pickup to the guitar we gifted him a couple years ago, a copy of a '52 Gibson ES 141T. I had a neck mounted pickup by Pete Biltoff of Vintage Vibes from several years ago, and bought yet another pickguard mount model by Benedetto thinking that I had two more new guitars in the closet and that maybe it was time to enhance those also.

As a custom builder who just keeps building, sometimes you get the advice that "If you just had this electrified, it would sell immediately". So, I bought the parts and prepared to get involved. I took the online soldering course with Seymour Duncan, bought some pots and knobs, researched wiring diagrams and thought I was ready.

My nephew showed up with the guitar I made and I put it on the table to think things through... I planned to add the neck mounted Vintage Vibe along with Tone and Volume, but it didn't take long to discover it wasn't going to work. The F-holes are small and the pots were big; no way was it gonna get done that day! That saved me from a couple of potential problems on a finished instrument- getting the pots up through the top, and a grounding system for the tailpiece/ strings. We compromised by installing an under saddle pickup (something I have done a few dozen times) and he was happy enough to just be plugged in. I learned a lot in a short period. For instance, the VV Humbucker 's wiring diagram asked for 500K pots while the Benedetto asked for 250K.

But, as I look to install these in two of my other guitars ( a 16 inch Mahogany full body, and a Padauk 15 inch cutaway), I still have questions. Now, obviously part of the problem is that I am retro-fitting... if the bodies were open it would be much easier. Beyond that, I have been of the Bennedetto school, and use a wooden tailpiece. Searching online has opened my eyes to the difficulty of doing a good job of grounding a wooden tailpiece. And also of the propensity of archtops to have buzzing issues despite the attempts to avoid them.

So, before I get too excited, can I humbly ask for any advice that might help me do a first class job the first time? I am not adverse to making new tailpieces entirely, or revamping the ones I already have; they have a coated metal cable to attach to the endpin jack at the rear tail block. I would like to keep it fairly simple, with a Tone and Volume for each, and few if any holes in the soundboard. I have seen where some put the mini pots on a pick guard. I have yet to add pick guards, but may have to explore that also.

"Electrifying" an acoustic instrument in a minimally invasive way now seems to be much more interesting than I previously supposed. My ears and mind are wide open and I look forward to hearing anything you good folks would like to share on the subject.

Thanks Much, Raven

PS. Gonna pull a "Columbo" here... One more thing! So, Pots' resistance make a difference, and the VV wiring diagram called for .047 capacitors but the Bennedetto left it up to choice. I know nothing about the implications of the several choices I could make, let alone if the expensive ones I bought at StewMac were any better than the half priced ones that I did not. Please explain or suggest a suitable resistance for the capacitors. I sure hope that all of this makes sense. Obviously I got a lot to learn.

[rlrhett]

May I suggest you post your question on a luthiers forum? I built guitars for over twenty five years and found the community at OLF (original luthier’s forum) and MIMF (musical instrument makers forum) to be indispensable.

The advice you may receive here is not always given from a place of actual knowledge or experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[sgosnell]

I'm not a luthier, but I've added a few pickups to archtops. My preference is the DeArmond Rhythm Chief, but there are others. For controls, I prefer thumbwheels, mounted either under the pickguard or in the treble f hole, using mounting tape to hold them in place. They're not obvious, and don't require any holes in the top. I like the Schatten thumbwheel controls because the wiring is dead easy, but again, there are others. Guitar Parts Factory has some, but the wiring is less intuitive. As a general rule of thumb, 500k ohm pots are used for humbucker pickups and 250k ohm for single-coils, but it's just a broad generality. Lower impedance cuts treble more, higher less. Capacitors don't have resistance, they are measured in Farads or more usual, micro or pico Farads. They affect the tone, cutting more or less treble. Higher capacitance cuts more highs. The Schatten thumbwheel controls come with a suitable capacitor. I prefer an endpin jack for output, because that's the least intrusive and most robust. I run the cable from the pickup into the treble f hole, which also requires no holes in the top. That's covered well by the pickguard if there is one, but I seldom use one, just let the 2-3" cable run be loose and visible. There are certainly other ways of doing it, but that's just the way I prefer.

[jazzshrink]

... That's covered well by the pickguard if there is one, but I seldom use one, just let the 2-3" cable run be loose and visible...

crazy, right?

And to the OP:

[garybaldy]

crazy, right?

And to the OP:

What is it? veneer?

[Jimmy blue note]

May I suggest you post your question on a luthiers forum? I built guitars for over twenty five years and found the community at OLF (original luthier’s forum) and MIMF (musical instrument makers forum) to be indispensable.

The advice you may receive here is not always given from a place of actual knowledge or experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Oh? I'll trust you on that

[ArchieHollow]

Hi Raven. I agree with Sgossnell regarding Schatten thumb wheel controls. They can easily be mounted under wood tailpiece too.

[ArchieHollow]

Kent Armstrong hand wound mini-bucker mounts to neck extension

[SOLR]

Good suggestions from Sgossnell and Archie...

Here's a pic of possibly the most successful such mod on an acoustic archtop



Peter Bernstein's Zeigler with Gibson 57 (thinner version from the old Howard Roberts) features the wings like you see on the KA Archie... suggested.

I put a link link to a forum conversation on this guitar which you might find useful.

S

[Raven8R]

Thanks Folks! I like the direction you are steering and the time you have taken is well appreciated, along with the pictures. I have kinda been a loner in my building career but I sure do like to hear some other and more experienced opinions... only a fool listens solely to his own advice. It looks like I will be master minding some new tailpieces in the near future. I also like the way we have avoided holes in the soundboard and to me the low profile controls look much better than knobs.
I think electrifying might be a great improvement but I also know better than to think it will translate into an instant selling point. I wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard "If it only had ( this or that small difference), I would buy it on the spot". Musicians are a finicky lot, but they are also kind when they say No Thank You in their own way. Thanks Again, R.

[Cunamara]

So, yeah, there you go. A pickup mounted to the end of the neck, low profile thumbwheel controls (Schattens are the easiest, available through StewMac) which can go under the pickguard, under the tail piece- or even in an F hole, if they're large enough to let a finger in to turn the wheel. In the latter case, you'd probably need to drill a small hole by the neck for the pickup wire to go through under the soundboard to the controls.

Another option might be the "McCarty" pickup configuration which makes the pickup, pickguard and cable jack all one unit and easily removable for purely acoustic utilization. You can do something similar with a tab mounted pickup by putting it, the controls and the jack on the fingerrest.

Making a McCarty Fingerrest Pickup

Ken Parker might have some useful information. He has a particularly elegant way of dealing with his pickup and the controls on his instruments:

Ken Parker Archtops - Finest Archtop Guitars