Chord melody

[grahambop]

Yes that Lorne Lofsky thing I transcribed in another thread recently is a great example of that.

[Tal_175]

I don't like counterpoint but I do like polyphony. However the polyphonic approaches that work in the jazz style require strong melody lines in my opinion. It's good for arranging standards but perhaps not so much in improvised contexts. In trio, duo or solo playing improvisation defaults to a lot of alternating single lines with stabs or block chord phrases. Part of the reason is that typically jazz guitarists have strong familiarity and facility with chordal and single line playing, but not necessarily with polyphonic textures.

Nevertheless chordal harmonization on guitar (homophony) is very pleasing to me. I like that it's a big and rich texture while also being very subtle. You can slightly change an inner voice of a big chord that harmonizes a treble note and the whole thing suddenly sounds remarkably different.

[Tal_175]

Yes that Lorne Lofsky thing I transcribed in another thread recently is a great example of that.

I think Lorne Lofsky's approach is not quite polyphony. It's more like implied polyphony. He was saying in the interview that if you really want to play these parts at the same time, you need to work them out beforehand which doesn't seem like something that interests him.

[grahambop]

Yes I was thinking in terms of Christian’s reference to a ‘broken-up’ approach with different voices, I thought Lorne’s solo was a good example of that.

I do think it’s a great exercise to try and harmonise a melody all the way through, it gives your chord knowledge a real work-out.

[jazzpazz]

Pano: No worries at all! And thanks for great information. Yes Im new, and I know I dont sound good. But it's more like I dont know what to play. For instance I keep meeting the melody note when its the same note in the chord (which is common) Then I dont know what to do, I could double that note, and play in the chord and melody. But on piano doubling is not considered good. But if I dont double the note on guitar, I can't make the chord with 3 and 7 on g and d string. Which is the main formula for chord melody according to stuff ive read.

Graham: I will work on my drop 2 and 3 voicing, as all you guys mentioned the importance of it. In the start I will only focus on the melody and chords on jazz standard. Before I start chord substituting.

Chris: I saw those videos earlier focusing on just playing the root of the chords together with the melody. Do all roots have to be played on the e and a string? Or can d string be a root/bass note too? Sometimes I can't reach the root on e and a string, when melody is on b and e string.

Chris/Graham: With middle voices, do you mean the 3 and 7 on string g/d? And what is the point of playing only the root? Is it just a beginning strategy to make It easier chord melody, without worrying about the 3 and 7?

[Christian Miller]

Chris: I saw those videos earlier focusing on just playing the root of the chords together with the melody. Do all roots have to be played on the e and a string? Or can d string be a root/bass note too? Sometimes I can't reach the root on e and a string, when melody is on b and e string.

I don't know if this is to with me, but in any case I would say, bass can be on D string, no problem.

Chris/Graham: With middle voices, do you mean the 3 and 7 on string g/d? And what is the point of playing only the root? Is it just a beginning strategy to make It easier chord melody, without worrying about the 3 and 7?

bass =/= root. Chords can be inversion if it contributes to the melodicness of the bass line. I would say this an important aspect of solo guitar.

As Schoenberg put it, the bass is the 'second melody'

A strong melody and bass line make a lot of music on their own. We only need to look to Bach...

3rds and 7ths are obvious choices for middle voices but don't hung up on these notes, and for me I would avoid doublings in voicings. (Just me)

Playing a more simplified version of chord melody allows you into introduce more motion in the middle voices. I'm not a 'stacker' - one can't really be that on guitar anyway - I prefer small chords and beautiful movement.

Monk teaches a lot about how this can be done in a very creative and non-traditional way.

[pamosmusic]

Pano: No worries at all! And thanks for great information. Yes Im new, and I know I dont sound good. But it's more like I dont know what to play. For instance I keep meeting the melody note when its the same note in the chord (which is common) Then I dont know what to do, I could double that note, and play in the chord and melody. But on piano doubling is not considered good. But if I dont double the note on guitar, I can't make the chord with 3 and 7 on g and d string. Which is the main formula for chord melody according to stuff ive read.

You might just consider an easy substitute for the third and the seventh. Like if the seventh is in the melody, drop the 7th in your lower voice to a 6th. If the third in the melody, move your third to a 9th or 11th. And actually rootless versions of those chords are really really common too. They’re up there with the drop two and drop three voicings for “guitarists bread and butter.” So you can just drop the root later in the measure.

[Christian Miller]

I think Lorne Lofsky's approach is not quite polyphony. It's more like implied polyphony. He was saying in the interview that if you really want to play these parts at the same time, you need to work them out beforehand which doesn't seem like something that interests him.

it’s amazing how unusual simple chords can sound when broken up in an unusual way

[Tal_175]

it’s amazing how unusual simple chords can sound when broken up in an unusual way

I'm actually currently exploring harmonizing with 10th and 6th intervals (R-3 and inverted 3-5 respectively) with an additional moving voice in the middle or in the treble. It amounts to broken-up open triads. Hours of fun.

[mr. beaumont]

Mr Beaumont: Is drop 2 and 3 used very much by all the greats, like Wes and stuff?
Picking a tune and you guys would help me a ton. Can do something simple like amazing grace, or jazz like Ive never been in love before

Definitely.

There's nothing partcularly magical about drop2's and 3's, other than that they are playable!

I think I'll start a thread, Amazing Grace would be great.

[pcjazz]

I'm actually currently exploring harmonizing with 10th and 6th intervals (R-3 and inverted 3-5 respectively) with an additional moving voice in the middle or in the treble. It amounts to broken-up open triads. Hours of fun.

Classic GVE moves!

[Christian Miller]

Drop 2’s work well in parallel because the outer voices are (generally) a 10th. That’s probably why pianists like Bill Evans and guitarists like Wes liked them so much for harmonising melodies.

Drop 3’s don’t work so well in parallel because they are a compound 5th (12th) so they are most commonly used with some sort of oblique or contrary voice leading in the top voice

Eg

4 x 4 5 3
3 x 3 4 3
or
4 x 4 5 3
3 x 3 4 4
NOT
4 x 4 5 4
3 x 3 4 3

[Christian Miller]

I'm actually currently exploring harmonizing with 10th and 6th intervals (R-3 and inverted 3-5 respectively) with an additional moving voice in the middle or in the treble. It amounts to broken-up open triads. Hours of fun.

yeah it’s kind of nuts how much of Bach’s counterpoint for example is just built on a skeleton of 10ths and 6ths/13ths. Put some nice voice leading in the middle and you got it made.

[jazzpazz]

So I can go as high as the d string with harmonising with root of the chord? It will be still be bass?

Well it dosent really matter if chords are inverted or not, or if root is the bass of the chord. But I belive that the root not is pretty much used as a bass, on strings e and a in chord melody?

I don't really see how I can get hung up on these notes, as they are an integral part of the chord? Shouldn't I aim for using them?

Oh and im not talking about counterpoints now. Got enough with one melody line for now.

[rpjazzguitar]

It helps to be able to get any note on top of any chord. That allows you to play melody with chords. To make good chord melody you need to figure out how to get a bass line happening and what to do with the inner notes, generally involving nice voice leading.

It's not easy and you have to work on tunes very slowly paying ample attention to detail.

But, getting started is perhaps a bit easier than it might seem at first.

Start with G7, played xx3433. If you barre it, your pinkie is free to play an Ab, A or Bb.

Then, move each one of those notes up the same string until you get to the next chord tone. So, the F note on the D string slides up to G. The B note on the G string slides up to D, etc. And you get xx5767. Your pinkie can slide up from B to C or C#.

Next one is xx9 10 8 10. And your pinkie can get several nearby notes.

Then do it for the inner 4 strings starting with x2303x and do the same thing.

You can start with 3534xx for the lower 4 strings. If you're sick of it, you might reasonably skip these -- they aren't as useful as the others.

You then have to learn 12 keys of this stuff. And, you can add other voicings, including with non-adjacent strings.

Then, start varying the voicings. Change the Bs to Bbs. Change the b7 to 7 or 6. Find Gmaj7, Gm6, Gm7, Gminmaj7, G6, Gm7b5 etc etc.

But, if all you learn is the top 4 string voicings in 12 keys with the moving pinkie, you have just about all you need to harmonize melody, except maybe for knowing which of the voicings to use in what situation. I'm not going to get much into that here. I did it naively a song at a time, copping things from other players.

Maybe a better way would be to read about how big band arrangers harmonize melody with horns. It's pretty much the same thing, in principle, like using diminished chords to bridge gaps, or alterating between majors and dominants where the chart says just major.

Maybe an easier way to learn your first few would be to copy somebody's chord melody whether or not you understand how they arrived at it, but, in the long run, the theory can be helpful.