Is minor "home" (Im) dorian, melodic, neither?

[ragman1]

Given the last views you shared, I'm not sure if this is genuine or sarcasm.

I'm sorry you see it that way. I can assure you it wasn't sarcasm. Not my style at all. Many posters with a question simply disappear or appear to lose interest in the answers, some with good reason. No, I mean it, you've stayed the course. Good for you.

As for previous comments, most of them are serious and on subject. But after 9 pages or so the whole thing becomes a little tiresome.

I meant everything I said. Don't be influenced by 'college speak', keep it simple and clear. This isn't something that requires deep theoretical analysis, quite the contrary. It's not Coltrane or Shorter, it's just a simple little tune.

So I'll say the basic thing again. First there's the head. Frankly, it doesn't matter what scale it uses, it's just a tune, the notes are there.

After that, soloing. You can play anything you want for the solo - natural, harmonic, melodic, blues, etc, etc. That's the beauty of jazz improv. You don't have to do anything, provided it sounds musically good.

What I'm telling you is good, it's the truth. Simple as that.

you thought I play guitar:

Not at all, I said I thought trumpet was excellent for this tune (#63). Suits it very well. It was written by a trumpeter! And I used to play trumpet, as it happens.

Anyway, thanks for taking the effort to share the backing track above

No effort at all, I thoroughly recommend it. And record what you do. It's generally very illuminating.

[pamosmusic]

Weird how when you call people confused and refer to them as “poor so and so” they tend not to take you seriously 100% of the time.

[ragman1]

alez -

As a follow-up I've just done this. Apologies for the quality, a lot is lost in translation to YouTube. It sounds horrible and tinny, and I think it's slower than it was played.

(Edit) In fact, here's a cleaner audio-only version.

This is an example of throwing everything in, as it were. I've put captions on the video to demonstrate more or less what I'm doing. It wasn't worked out beforehand. If I did it again it would be different.

You'll notice there's no C natural minor in it. That's because the chords are C harmonic chords, despite the melody. Actually, I've never seen the melody as C natural just because of the Bb. It seems to me the Bb was just inserted into the tune for effect over the G7 as a #9/blues sound... but there we are.

So the solos are a mixture of C harm and C mel. The use of the m6 (A) makes it melodic, technically at least. But I didn't think like that, it's just Cm plus the m6 sound, which is nice.

I did use the melodic minor over the G7alt and also over the Ab7 because it felt okay.

The Fm's were interesting. They're mostly just Fm, basically, but occasionally made into m6's. But the m6 note (D) is part of the Dorian anyway. But in one spot I chanced my arm and played F melodic m which gives the natural E sound (0.55). This is what I mean by being free to play with it. And I think the colour note at that point works fine.

So, as I say, it wasn't worked out beforehand except for having an overview of the necessary harmonies. Hope it's useful.

[alez]

Good for you, alez!

Thanks a lot

I'm sorry you see it that way. I can assure you it wasn't sarcasm. Not my style at all. Many posters with a question simply disappear or appear to lose interest in the answers, some with good reason. No, I mean it, you've stayed the course. Good for you.

Oh, I see. Thanks. It's difficult to find enough time to keep up and not disappear.

In fact, I still have a lot to go through on this thread, including:

1) Studying carefully this video you posted:

Look at this. Study it. He uses several ways to end on the Cm. Blues, G7alt, you name it.

(My original question is more about the Cm itself, but I will go through this.)

2) Checking out these particular recordings:

Dont remember them all but I know Coltrane at the Vanguard and a Sonny Clark one.

I find the forum extremely helpful but it can be totally overwhelming all the same.

Not at all, I said I thought trumpet was excellent for this tune (#63). Suits it very well. It was written by a trumpeter! And I used to play trumpet, as it happens.

I got confused because you mentioned frets.

As a follow-up I've just done this. Apologies for the quality, a lot is lost in translation to YouTube. It sounds horrible and tinny, and I think it's slower than it was played.

Youtube alters audio very much. I don't like it. I like Mega.nz (a free cloud storage service). It's very useful for sending large files, very fast and it has this clever feature that if you store a media file and share a link to it (like I did on this thread I started a while ago), the browser will play the file rather than download it, but unaltered, as it's still treated like a data file that you've stored. Also you can still download the media file by right-clicking on it.

This is an example of throwing everything in, as it were. I've put captions on the video to demonstrate more or less what I'm doing. It wasn't worked out beforehand. If I did it again it would be different.

This is great. Thank you so much. The captions are so helpful.

[alez]

1) Studying carefully this video you posted:
(My original question is more about the Cm itself, but I will go through this.)

I've now checked the Cm bits. Hugely useful

[ragman1]

I like Mega.nz (a free cloud storage service). It's very useful for sending large files, very fast and it has this clever feature that if you store a media file and share a link to it (like I did on this thread I started a while ago), the browser will play the file rather than download it, but unaltered, as it's still treated like a data file that you've stored. Also you can still download the media file by right-clicking on it.

Thanks for that. I'll give it a look-see. It's certainly not expensive.

This is great. Thank you so much. The captions are so helpful.

As you say, you were primarily interested in the Cm issue but I saw advantage in putting the thing in the context of a tune. What one uses over a minor chord usually depends on the context. Always the context :-)

You could try Summertime sometime, if you haven't already. That's interesting because it starts with a m6. The melody is 99% pentatonic but the solo needs a bit more than that. Good exercise.

Incidentally, I was a little concerned about one thing. The trumpet is a Bb instrument so presumably you'd have to play Blue Bossa in D minor for it to sound in C minor. Would that be right?

[alez]

As you say, you were primarily interested in the Cm issue but I saw advantage in putting the thing in the context of a tune. What one uses over a minor chord usually depends on the context. Always the context :-)

Context is everything. Without it, theory is very misleading.

You could try Summertime sometime, if you haven't already. That's interesting because it starts with a m6. The melody is 99% pentatonic but the solo needs a bit more than that. Good exercise.

I've been playing that. Do you mean that its Im is somehow different to that of Softly as in a Morning Sunrise already discussed? Don't these call for the same sounds to be used?

I've been practicing a number of tonal minor tunes which I would've thought would be identical in terms of how to treat their Im. Lately my list is:
Blue Bossa
Summertime
Manha de Carnaval (Black Orpheus)
Autumn Leaves
Beautiful Love
Softly, as in a Morning Sunrise
Comes Love
Bei Mir Bist du Schön
You'd Be So Nice to Come Home to (formally I see this as major because of its odd final resolution but you kind of practice it like it's in its relative minor)

Incidentally, I was a little concerned about one thing. The trumpet is a Bb instrument so presumably you'd have to play Blue Bossa in D minor for it to sound in C minor. Would that be right?

That's exactly right. But in conversation we normally speak piano language, otherwise it gets very confusing. So if it's 440 Hz, we call it an A just like you. We keep to ourselves the fact that it's a B to us. To an alto sax, it's an F#, but she'll call it an A. In fact you can't take for granted what it is to another instrumentalist. I know Bb instrument people to whom this A is an A. Someone I know has perfect pitch and plays piano and tenor sax, both really well. He thinks everything untransposed because he learnt piano first. Also a pianist friend of mine who also plays alto sax and trombone. So even in a conversation between two trumpeters, pitches get their correct (untransposed) names. That way, each instrumentalist deals with his own language thing, only. An exception would be if we're discussing a music sheet that's written for trumpet, where this A would of course be written right in the middle of the stave (staff?), and calling it an A would be odd.

[ragman1]

I've got the trumpet thing. I'm so glad. Resolved :-)

I've been practicing a number of tonal minor tunes which I would've thought would be identical in terms of how to treat...

No, they're all different tunes written by different people. Different feel, different backgrounds. In short, different contexts.

And therein lies the whole answer.

[pauln]

Wouldn’t your first chord be a Bbmi9? It includes the b7 so using the add9 terminology is confusing.
Your second chord fingering should be 6 8 10 6 6 x I believe.


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