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I know I'm being presumptuous to speak for Mick, but I feel like he'd say "strictly speaking, none of this is NECESSARY..."
It depends upon your goals, and the results you've seen so far in your practicing. I've been in situations where the leader of the gig has called for modulations (Wine and Roses f-Ab, Softly with the last 8 down a half step), played tunes that move through many keys (Cherokee, Song Is You) and had singers call familiar tunes in Gb or B instead of F or Bb, , for reasons they insist are crucial to the gig. All of those things have given me some real time feedback on how much I might need to practice in other keys vs counting on grips and shapes transferring over
PK
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07-19-2023 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by paulkogut
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
What does it mean to have “done” a scale?
Then the short answer: yes, twelve keys. But what that looks like in the end, depends on the answer to that first question.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
If it’s an ear training exercise, then one key should be fine. If it’s for fretboard knowledge, then probably the other keys would be important. At least some of them. If I remember right, your goal is the latter.
But also not all the tasks are created equal in that respect. The positions are moveable, so a few keys would be fine. The double strings have a lot of patterns, so maybe more than a few but not all. The single strings and open positions aren’t moveable, so you’d imagine you’d need all twelve.
Is the problem that it feels repetitive or unnecessary when you move on?
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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I guess the other question is how well you know each scale after one pass through. I guess two root notes would be enough to get you through all the key signatures, since the scales are in parallel.
But you could always keep going through them and each time you switch roots you could try something different. Have you done interval studies or triad studies, or maybe tried quartal triads and things like that through those scales? Each time you switch keys, you can also switch what aspect of the scale you’re dialing in on. Because you can never really be “done” with a scale, right?
Sometimes practicing the same thing, but like … not exactly the same thing … can be really helpful.
also that earlier answer … none of this is strictly speaking necessary. So if you’re bored and done with it, just be done with it. You can always come back later. Or not.
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Have you ever checked out The Serious Jazz Practice Book?
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
And I guess that’s a chicken and egg situation. Are you working with steps and because your improvisation is mostly stepwise? Or Is the improvisation mostly stepwise because that’s what you’re working on?
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I'm working with steps because thats usually what my improv is. I think playing on single strings lends itself to this as its very easy to be in stepwise mode. Improvising arpeggios on single strings is pretty challenging! On positions I feel more options open up albeit with less possible phrasing but yeah thats what I take from all this
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
E to Ab is a diminished fourth
E to G# is a major third
G# to C is a diminished fourth
G# to B# is a major third
B# to E is a diminished fourth
B# to D## is a major third
D## to Ab is a triple diminished fifth
D## to F### is a major third
F### to C is a triple diminished fifth
F### to A### is a major third
A### to E is a triple diminished fifth
A### to C#### is a major third
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Originally Posted by pauln
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Originally Posted by pauln
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
The pitch intervals between the adjacent open strings are major thirds (five half-steps), but the numeric value of the interval between notes is the number of lines and spaces on the staff between them, inclusive (the "span") no matter the application of accidentals. Using enharmonic note names changes the numeric value of the interval name, etc.
Therefore, the same pitch interval may take different note interval numbers based on how it appears in the score - usually of little concern outside of composing for clarity or rigorous harmonic theory analysis.
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A man after my own, very pedantic, heart.
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So I've been reading more about the lydian chromatic concept and apparantedly there is more than just 11 scales (7 vertical and 4 horizontal). There are multiple same chords within the 7 vertical scales that have different roots and from those you can build another 11 scales from the different tonic. So from my perspective since I'm just using a lowly drone note as a backing track there are 12 notes in the lydian chromatic scale that I have to play alongside with. So for instance C Lydian for C backing track, C Lydian for Db backing track, C Lydian for D backing track etc. And I have to do that through 11 of the parent scales (using the same key) against 12 possible roots. Its gonna take a while and it will get pretty dissonant but I'm always up for the challenge exploring new sounds.
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Playing in all keys (full range) in a singular location engenders multiple fingering solutions and in my opinion is worth the effort. Moving the same shape around has less to teach on the physical plane.
There is something to be gained by being able to think in all keys cause situations arise where this may matter.
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
I think sometimes we talk about knowing the fretboard like it’s flash cards or something — knowing where the scales are and that sort of thing. But being able to command the scales and get whatever sound out of them that you want is maybe what we’re actually talking about.
I get students a lot of the time who are really frustrated that they don’t know the fretboard, and think they need to learn notes and scales better, but when I quiz them, they know all the notes and can play a lot of scales. In the end they just don’t feel like they can use what they know.
Its like knowing tons of words in a new language but not knowing the grammar.
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Originally Posted by bako
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Improvising through these scales got me thinking... The african american blues scale is awesome. But more than that I've been thinking of reducing the possibilities on what to practice on guitar. So for instance since I have only 3 different open strings due to my tuning I could just practice 3 strings instead of 6. Or heck I could just practice 1 string since the pattern gets shifted around in a predictable matter, then a pair of double strings, then 4 positions (since the pattern repeats itself displaced by 1 string), then whole neck. If this was piano I would definitedly practice in 12 keys, the fingerings would demand it. But since this is guitar.. might as well take every advantage one could get and run with it. Personally my opinion of course
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Originally Posted by jazznylon
Moffa Mithra
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