Has anyone finished 'the approach'? - The Advancing Guitarist

[pamosmusic]

What would you recommend for hardcore woodshed sessions?

I always tend to think of those kind of exhaustive-permutation-based things (which I love) less as a reason to go through them all and more as a means by which you can vary your practice.

It would be impossible to get through it all, but it would be very possible to work on, say, major scales for a year and never practice exactly the same thing twice.

[jazznylon]

I always tend to think of those kind of exhaustive-permutation-based things (which I love) less as a reason to go through them all and more as a means by which you can vary your practice.

It would be impossible to get through it all, but it would be very possible to work on, say, major scales for a year and never practice exactly the same thing twice.

After doing all this limiting fingers stuff for about a year I realize its mostly just the same thing. Sure some hammer-on's pull-off's get restricted but what one plays doesn't really change much. I'm also not a big fan sliding around the string a lot with one finger because the fingertip would get burned but oh well lol. Basically using more fingers is easier but everyone knows that

[jazznylon]

What would you recommend for hardcore woodshed sessions?

Hey Dasein don't worry about replying to this I'm gonna find a jazz guitar teacher soon to figure out what the hell am I going to practice lol

[Jimmy blue note]

jazznylon, I know you didn't find my perspective or suggestion to your liking or even relevant, but when you ask yourself why you want to play guitar, what your ideal experience in your mind that inspired you to pick up the guitar, what was that?
So many times we lose track of our truest and most real ideals, whatever they might be. Jazz, and especially jazz guitar that's so populated by products of obsession and obsessive study has solutions that work for only themselves; everybody's got an opinion based on their own prejudices.
Advancing Guitarist is a book of answers to those who have asked questions and found traditional answers inadequate.
Are you still true to the things that made you want to play? Are you motivated by the strengths in your playing or by the fears that you'll be trapped by your perceived inadequacies?

Sure, none of this may be relevant to you, but I do think that knowing where your itch is will help you know where to scratch.

When I met Mick, I was just a kid and he made some time for me to see him in his office. He asked me "What do you want to do?" I told him I found something so impossibly satisfying in the records and performances of Joe Pass, Julian Bream, John McLaughlin, Johnny Smith to name a few. I wanted to be able to play anything that came into my head, anything I felt to be able to come out in music. I wanted to make beauty.

He asked me "What's the thing that's keeping you from that?" I had to stop and really think. I said Each of those people would take a lifetime of study, and I'm not going to live forever. I'm afraid that I'll spend 10 years learning to play a certain way and one day discover that I'd wasted my time floundering.

He told me "Flounder. Don't be afraid to get lost. Study everything. Learn all you can while you can. One day all the things you love will be a part of your playing and that music will be you."

That was the beginning of it all, when he gave me permission to play music and live it.

You said you're not interested in that. But there's something you want, obviously. Do you know what it is?

[jazznylon]

jazznylon, I know you didn't find my perspective or suggestion to your liking or even relevant, but when you ask yourself why you want to play guitar, what your ideal experience in your mind that inspired you to pick up the guitar, what was that?
So many times we lose track of our truest and most real ideals, whatever they might be. Jazz, and especially jazz guitar that's so populated by products of obsession and obsessive study has solutions that work for only themselves; everybody's got an opinion based on their own prejudices.
Advancing Guitarist is a book of answers to those who have asked questions and found traditional answers inadequate.
Are you still true to the things that made you want to play? Are you motivated by the strengths in your playing or by the fears that you'll be trapped by your perceived inadequacies?

Sure, none of this may be relevant to you, but I do think that knowing where your itch is will help you know where to scratch.

When I met Mick, I was just a kid and he made some time for me to see him in his office. He asked me "What do you want to do?" I told him I found something so impossibly satisfying in the records and performances of Joe Pass, Julian Bream, John McLaughlin, Johnny Smith to name a few. I wanted to be able to play anything that came into my head, anything I felt to be able to come out in music. I wanted to make beauty.

He asked me "What's the thing that's keeping you from that?" I had to stop and really think. I said Each of those people would take a lifetime of study, and I'm not going to live forever. I'm afraid that I'll spend 10 years learning to play a certain way and one day discover that I'd wasted my time floundering.

He told me "Flounder. Don't be afraid to get lost. Study everything. Learn all you can while you can. One day all the things you love will be a part of your playing and that music will be you."

That was the beginning of it all, when he gave me permission to play music and live it.

You said you're not interested in that. But there's something you want, obviously. Do you know what it is?

Stuff that I want... I would like to 'master' the fretboard before moving onto anything else. I find the advancing guitarist to be a great source for that but now I'm reconsidering doing the fingering combinatorics that I spent so much of my time on. Progress is just way faster that way if I just stick to 4 fingers. Now if theres any player that I would like to emulate it would be this guy for single note note lines

I just love how he incorporates slides while playing fast runs. I find it pretty hard to believe that he was improvising... but I guess anything is possible if you put your mind to it. There are other players I would like to emulate but this one comes to mind the most. I do believe learning from the advancing guitarist will help me towards this goal but its definitedly a challenge to pull off the fast run sliding thing in real time and make it sound good

[Rob MacKillop]

Good luck!

[Jimmy blue note]

Stuff that I want... I would like to 'master' the fretboard before moving onto anything else. I find the advancing guitarist to be a great source for that but now I'm reconsidering doing the fingering combinatorics that I spent so much of my time on. Progress is just way faster that way if I just stick to 4 fingers. Now if theres any player that I would like to emulate it would be this guy for single note note lines

I just love how he incorporates slides while playing fast runs. I find it pretty hard to believe that he was improvising... but I guess anything is possible if you put your mind to it. There are other players I would like to emulate but this one comes to mind the most. I do believe learning from the advancing guitarist will help me towards this goal but its definitedly a challenge to pull off the fast run sliding thing in real time and make it sound good

Thank you for that heartfelt reply. I loved those early Doug Raney records. Yes, I understand what you mean about getting around on the fingerboard. I do so admire your dedication. I didn't know Doug Raney personally but I do know many players that you might also consider masters of the instrument. It just so happens that all of them "Did the program", "learned the approach", meaning they all studied with Mick Goodrick as it turns out. But that's NOT what I consider their common denominator, no, what they have in common is something they had well before they studied before him: Love for the instrument.
Love and the pure joy of playing made them play hours and hours, getting to know their guitars, getting to know the tunes, getting to know their sound and falling in love with the things their hands could do to make the music they loved. It's about love and the places that fuel will take them. Where it took all those cats I know, is coming up against their limits as young players. What Mick, and the Advancing Guitarist had (has) to offer was understanding and knowledge, but at the core, it's the music that inspires you, the things that keep you from getting there and the resources you assemble on your own that make you unstoppable.
Unstoppable means as long as you have a love for the instrument, there's nothing you can't do. That's what makes you an Advancing Guitarist.

The time is yours.

[jazznylon]

Good luck!

Thanks! I'm definitedly going to need it

Thank you for that heartfelt reply. I loved those early Doug Raney records. Yes, I understand what you mean about getting around on the fingerboard. I do so admire your dedication. I don't know Doug Raney personally but I do know many players that you might also consider masters of the instrument. It just so happens that all of them "Did the program", "learned the approach", meaning they all studied with Mick Goodrick as it turns out. But that's NOT what I consider their common denominator, no, what they have in common is something they had well before they studied before him: Love for the instrument.
Love and the pure joy of playing made them play hours and hours, getting to know their guitars, getting to know the tunes, getting to know their sound and falling in love with the things their hands could do to make the music they loved. It's about love and the places that fuel will take them. Where it took all those cats I know, is coming up against their limits as young players. What Mick, and the Advancing Guitarist had (has) to offer was understanding and knowledge, but at the core, it's the music that inspires you, the things that keep you from getting there and the resources you assemble on your own that make you unstoppable.
Unstoppable means as long as you have a love for the instrument, there's nothing you can't do. That's what makes you an Advancing Guitarist.

The time is yours.

Wow I love your inspirational take! Thanks I've been through a lot but I always wanted to do something great with this crazy instrument. I don't know how long its gonna take me but I don't mind either way. Anyways thank you

[Liarspoker]

Thanks for this thread.

I'm away on holidays and bought TAG with me. It's the book that I always bring on holidays. It's the gift that keeps on giving

There's a little TAG challenge on the MGH FB page. Feel free to join in

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[jazznylon]

With the rate things are going I'm probably going to go over some weird exotic 7 note scales that not many people know of (except for perhaps Ben Monder) since I basically 'finish' the approach a key a day using just 4 fingers. I like the idea of exploring new sounds and possibilities. There are 38 Parent 7 Note Scales that don't exceed the interval of a major 3rd between notes (I would like to have notes between adjacent strings). I actually have a list of the scales but don't feel comfortable sharing since I got it from a book. The rest of my hours I basically dedicate to learning tunes now.

Thanks for this thread.

I'm away on holidays and bought TAG with me. It's the book that I always bring on holidays. It's the gift that keeps on giving

There's a little TAG challenge on the MGH FB page. Feel free to join in

Log into Facebook | Facebook

You're welcome!

[Jonah]

I do not criticize anyone, each one has its own path and what is good for one can be no good for the other.

But for me such a methodology is similar to an idea that one would work for a year as a house painter with intention to become a 'Titian' after that.

Great artists often began as assistants to the masters of the day and often they had to do something like 'fill in this colour in this area' but the importance was that it was always in the artistic context. They saw what they 'filled in' and how it was arranged into an artistic composition expressing meaning.

I'd rather start immidiately with trying to make a composition together with developing artistic skills.

After all I do not really care if the player can play particular scale I wonder if a musicain can play music.

I tried Mick Goodrick book. I respect it, it is very indivudual approach, and it reflects a lot of a philosophy of Mick in practical way. But mostly it is just not my philosophy probably.

The other side of this approach is that it can be interpeted too directly maybe - and then it turns into a set of technical excercises.
This method in my opinion does not describe a language.

[jazznylon]

On second thought I think I'm gonna pass on doing those weird 7 note exotic scales for 'the approach'. Theres simply too many of them and they're mostly just alterations of existing scales anyways.. Onwards to parallel scales!

I do not criticize anyone, each one has its own path and what is good for one can be no good for the other.

But for me such a methodology is similar to an idea that one would work for a year as a house painter with intention to become a 'Titian' after that.

Great artists often began as assistants to the masters of the day and often they had to do something like 'fill in this colour in this area' but the importance was that it was always in the artistic context. They saw what they 'filled in' and how it was arranged into an artistic composition expressing meaning.

I'd rather start immidiately with trying to make a composition together with developing artistic skills.

After all I do not really care if the player can play particular scale I wonder if a musicain can play music.

I tried Mick Goodrick book. I respect it, it is very indivudual approach, and it reflects a lot of a philosophy of Mick in practical way. But mostly it is just not my philosophy probably.

The other side of this approach is that it can be interpeted too directly maybe - and then it turns into a set of technical excercises.
This method in my opinion does not describe a language.

Thank you for your insight

[Liarspoker]

Jazznylon, perhaps your time is better spent going through the materials from page 39 onwards?

These materials provide further tools that you can use plus all this material is just harmonized scales.

[jazznylon]

Jazznylon, perhaps your time is better spent going through the materials from page 39 onwards?

These materials provide further tools that you can use plus all this material is just harmonized scales.

I'll explore that later on 'The more to do with Triads' section I can get through it all since its just using only 4 chords. However the possibilities get astronomical once one incorporates 12 4-note chords from pg 44. There is just too many possible combinations to go through.. I think a much healthier way to go about it is to use 4 chords at a time (referencing pg 38 for 'musical material') and once thats done its done.

[Liarspoker]

The more to do with Triads' section I can get through it all since its just using only 4 chords.

Yes but three inversions for each closed triads plus another three for the spread triads. That's 6 voicings per chord, more if you change string sets.

If you can't improvise at the speed of thought with these triads then there's more work to be done.

[jazznylon]

Yes but three inversions for each closed triads plus another three for the spread triads. That's 6 voicings per chord, more if you change string sets.

If you can't improvise at the speed of thought with these triads then there's more work to be done.

Thats fine if you want to do them, fortunatly he doesn't say to start with 6 voicings in "more to do with triads" so I'm just gonna start with root position closed. The string set thing I don't have to change since I tuned in major 3rds. I feel sorry for standard tuning guitarists, they have a lot of work cut out for them

[pamosmusic]

Thats fine if you want to do them, fortunatly he doesn't say to start with 6 voicings in "more to do with triads" so I'm just gonna start with root position closed. The string set thing I don't have to change since I tuned in major 3rds. I feel sorry for standard tuning guitarists, they have a lot of work cut out for them

Ooo interesting. Intervals between the strings might be the same but the strings themselves are different, no?

Meaning it feels very very different to play them on the lowest three strings than on the highest.

[jazznylon]

Ooo interesting. Intervals between the strings might be the same but the strings themselves are different, no?

Meaning it feels very very different to play them on the lowest three strings than on the highest.

Yes.. the only strings I have tuned is E - Ab - C and the pattern repeats. So lets say you have a 6 string guitar tuned in major 3rds.. you have the bottom 3 strings tuned as E - Ab - C and then you have the top 3 strings tuned E - Ab - C its the same thing tuned an octave higher. Its kind of like piano if you think about it

[pamosmusic]

Yes.. the only strings I have tuned is E - Ab - C and the pattern repeats. So lets say you have a 6 string guitar tuned in major 3rds.. you have the bottom 3 strings tuned as E - Ab - C and then you have the top 3 strings tuned E - Ab - C its the same thing tuned an octave higher. Its kind of like piano if you think about it

Oh I mean the physical strings. Like playing on three heavy wound strings feels very different than playing on three light unwound strings.

This is all just to say that our instrument is insane and they’re a gazillion fingerings to practice no matter what we do.

[jazznylon]

Oh I mean the physical strings. Like playing on three heavy wound strings feels very different than playing on three light unwound strings.

This is all just to say that our instrument is insane and they’re a gazillion fingerings to practice no matter what we do.

I agree. In the case of my 10 string tuned in major 3rds 5 of them are bass strings and 5 others are treble string. Equally balanced indeed

So I went ahead and practiced the scales in parallel on six individual strings today and I gotta say.. the dorian b2 mode is my favorite scale of them all as I can hear the modes more clear now

[Liarspoker]

Jazznylon you can do what you want with the triads but just remember that a 4 note chords such as a 7th chord is a triads with one more note.
Knowing your triads inversions will really help with your 4 note chords.
Enjoy the journey

[jazznylon]

Jazznylon you can do what you want with the triads but just remember that a 4 note chords such as a 7th chord is a triads with one more note.
Knowing your triads inversions will really help with your 4 note chords.
Enjoy the journey

Yeah triads pack a punch! I already know them inversions but haven't put them in much use which this book will later rectify. Another book from goodrick that deals with 3 note chords is that creative chordal harmony book. I haven't worked on it yet as that will happen much later but I already have a familiarity of all those 3 note chords and those inversions open and closed before I even got the book thanks in large part to the tuning I use. But yeah the journey's been fun sure there have been frustrations at the beginning but thats all in the past now. We're all just trying to climb the mountaintop no matter how long it takes

[Liarspoker]

Yes, I have the GMC book and it's great. Like the Almanacs it took me a little while to get my head around but it's a great book.
I was never a fan of cluster voicings but when played as spread triads they are beautiful.
Obviously this book should only be explored after getting to know your 135 closed and spread triads and inversions very well. You'll love it.

Re Modes, sing them

[jazznylon]

So now I'm working on parallel scales on the open position and its been quite the challenge! Its difficult to go from one mode to another within such a restricted spot (even though it takes 2 minutes to switch between scales). I had no problems with single string and double string soloing though, just base it from the root note and go either direction you want. But here in the open position the root is situated at a inconvenient spot (4th fret pinkie). I guess theres open strings too but I think thinking about the root on the pinkie gives me better preparation for position playing. Its been a humbling experience for sure

[jazznylon]

Hey everyone sorry for bringing this back as the thread lost steam but I gotta ask.. is doing the 12 keys things really necessary? So I'm doing the parallel scales having done everything in the key of C and now doing it in the key of E, now I'm just contemplating like in the case of fingering combinatorics if its really necessary to do it all. I mean if you think about it playing in a different key is the same thing except everything is shifted to a different location. So in a sense it seems like I'm wasting my time just repeating the same fingerings but now in different locations when all I need to do is find the root of the scale on the fretboard and from there I could go on. The only good thing I think that can come from this is that solidifies learning the shapes from doing so many repititions but if I know the shapes well enough (which I do) it seems kinda pointless. Idk, what are your thoughts on this? It can seem like I'm making excuses as I'm a completionist by heart but one can't help but ponder..