Lies to Children

[rintincop]

Here are some examples from jazz/music edu. Mark Levine’s ‘myths’ chapter in the jazz theory book is in the same spirit. Some may be more factoids or misconceptions than edu ‘lies’, but interested to hear your examples/thoughts.

- don’t double the root
- harmonic minor isn’t used much in jazz
- the fourth is an avoid note on dominant
- the thirteenth is an avoid note on minor seventh
- bebop is about the upper extensions/pre war jazz players didn’t use extensions
- improvisers always make everything up from scratch

I’ll leave it at that for now….

I see, you were being sarcastic because Levine didn't really promote those ideas.

[Christian Miller]

I'm confused by your writing, it might be too glib for me. Are you claiming Levine said those things or that he didn't say those things? If you are claiming he said such things, you must be getting your straw men in bulk from Coscto. What is the so called "myths" chapter?

It’s not a whole chapter but can be found in chapter 23

[ChazFromCali]

The last one kinda cracks me up.
Thinking about it, maybe Ornette Coleman got close to that "ideal." But right off the top of my head I can't think of anyone else.

[rintincop]

It’s not a whole chapter but can be found in chapter 23

I see, you were being sarcastic because Levine didn't really promote those ideas.

[Christian Miller]

I see, you were being sarcastic because Levine didn't really promote those ideas.

Errr… no?

Sorry I’m a bit confused. You know that bit in chapter 23 where Mark lists four commonplace myths, right?

[rintincop]

Indeed, I was his technical editor. I think you are creating myths.

[Christian Miller]

Indeed, I was his technical editor. I think you are creating myths.

what do you think I’m saying? You’ve lost me.

What I think is saying is the following

I named some common inaccurate factoids that you hear sometimes here and there (sometimes from educators, somewhere from jgo members etc), in the spirit of chapter 23 of the Jazz Theory Book which lists four of these, calling them myths.

The point I’m making is also that not all of these factoids are necessarily a bad thing - sometimes a simplified understanding is necessary at some point of education.

[rintincop]

I'll just say that Mark Levine did NOT say:

- don’t double the root
- harmonic minor isn’t used much in jazz
- the fourth is an avoid note on dominant
- the thirteenth is an avoid note on minor seventh
- bebop is about the upper extensions/pre war jazz players didn’t use extensions
- improvisers always make everything up from scratch

[Christian Miller]

I'll just say that Mark Levine did NOT say:

- don’t double the root
- harmonic minor isn’t used much in jazz
- the fourth is an avoid note on dominant
- the thirteenth is an avoid note on minor seventh
- bebop is about the upper extensions/pre war jazz players didn’t use extensions
- improvisers always make everything up from scratch

did I say that he said any of those things?

[rintincop]

I am sorry but when I read your initial post and I don't know what you are trying to say. Can you explain it more clearly? And what does Mark Levine have to do with what you are talking about?

[Litterick]

Levine lists "four things you might have been told by well-meaning teachers", that are "simply untrue."

Piano players should not play root position chords when playing with a bass player.
You have to have both the 3rd and 7th in a dominant 7th chord.
The 4th takes the place of the 3rd in a sus chord.
Some notes in a chord are inherently better to play than others.

Christian suggested some more, and invited us to add to his list.

It could be fun.

[Christian Miller]

I might add that some of these things might not be the wrong thing for players of a certain level to hear. To say something like ‘don’t play the roots’ on chords is not meant to etched in a marble slab, but it maybe a very quick way of cleaning up a muddy band texture for example.

The problem is these things may be taken as actual rules and then overapplied, when the only rule of course is to listen

[mr. beaumont]

I might add that some of these things might not be the wrong thing for players of a certain level to hear. To say something like ‘don’t play the roots’ on chords is not meant to etched in a marble slab, but it maybe a very quick way of cleaning up a muddy band texture for example.

The problem is these things may be taken as actual rules and then overapplied, when the only rule of course is to listen

This is worth repeating.

[rintincop]

Levine lists "four things you might have been told by well-meaning teachers", that are "simply untrue."

Piano players should not play root position chords when playing with a bass player.
You have to have both the 3rd and 7th in a dominant 7th chord.
The 4th takes the place of the 3rd in a sus chord.
Some notes in a chord are inherently better to play than others.

Christian suggested some more, and invited us to add to his list.

It could be fun.

Thank you for the translation