Jazzology Workbook

[Scrybe]

Anyone use this? I just started. Need some verification from a fellow user if poss...

Exercise 4 of Chapter 1 (Intervals) (p8), the fourth interval it asks you to write out is listed as...

+3, starting on a B natural. I notated it as xD (D double sharped, so sounding the same as an E natural). I assumed +3 meant augmented 3rd.

The answer book says it should be D sharp (sorry, no sharp button on my laptop - Mac). I know this would be a major 3rd from B natural, but I thought the symbol for major 3rd would be M3.

I think it's just an error in the book, but could do with someone to verify it for me. Thanks.

If I have any further Jazzology related Qs, I'll keep using this thread to post them in. Anyone else using this text who has Qs should feel free to do the same. (Literally just started with this text today, so I'm keeping a guitar nearby to play as much of what I read as possible)

[derek]

Never heard of it. Checked it out online, and it gets rave reviews on Amazon.

[Scrybe]

Yeah, a few locals also recommended it to me. But I'm not so sure....

The next chapter is on triads, and covers polytonal chords and slash chords, too. When discussing slash chords, it gives them the sub-heading "Hybrid chords" then the first sentence says they're often referred to as slash chords. The exercises for that chapter include one where you're supposed to read chords from notation and label them as either Polytonal, Hybrid, or Slash. Quickly checked the back to see if the answers make a distinction between slash chords and hybrid chords, and they do. But the book makes no mention of what this distinction is supposed to be. Weird...

Gonna do the other exercises tho, just dunno what to put for that one. May have to email the authors and ask (they gave an email address in the book for feedback....just hope it's still active...). Again, if anyone has this book and could double check for me to clarify this, that would be massive. Thx.

[Scrybe]

Aside from these possible errors, it does seem a potentially good text, tho. It really stresses playing the material on your instrument and listening to the sounds. And the final chapters are devoted to a discussion of improvising and practicing - the comments on practice were fairly useful. I think google books lets you view certain chapters/excerpts from it, too.

[gersdal]

Anyone use this?

This?

I've got it. Very good

Jeff Brent, who is participating every now and then on this forum, had a role in the writing of this (proofreading I think). With luck you'll get his input as well.

[Scrybe]

Yup, that's the one! Don't suppose there's any chance you could check the couple of problems I had, could you? No rush, it's just that I don't wanna miss something here. Many thanks!

[gersdal]

Yup, that's the one! Don't suppose there's any chance you could check the couple of problems I had, could you? No rush, it's just that I don't wanna miss something here. Many thanks!

Now that we know that we are talking about the same book, I'll take a look

[Scrybe]

Cheers for that, appreciated.

[gersdal]

Anyone use this? I just started. Need some verification from a fellow user if poss...

Exercise 4 of Chapter 1 (Intervals) (p8), the fourth interval it asks you to write out is listed as...

+3, starting on a B natural. I notated it as xD (D double sharped, so sounding the same as an E natural). I assumed +3 meant augmented 3rd.

The answer book says it should be D sharp (sorry, no sharp button on my laptop - Mac). I know this would be a major 3rd from B natural, but I thought the symbol for major 3rd would be M3.

I do agree with you on this. If you check Exercise 2 that also hold the exact same question, and the correct answer is said to be xD, rather than #D.

I would say it was a typo.

[Scrybe]

Thanks for that, I thought I was really familiar with that stuff so was very surprised when I got it wrong. What did you make of the distinction between slash chords and hybrid chords in the second chapter?

[gersdal]

The next chapter is on triads, and covers polytonal chords and slash chords, too. When discussing slash chords, it gives them the sub-heading "Hybrid chords" then the first sentence says they're often referred to as slash chords. The exercises for that chapter include one where you're supposed to read chords from notation and label them as either Polytonal, Hybrid, or Slash. Quickly checked the back to see if the answers make a distinction between slash chords and hybrid chords, and they do. But the book makes no mention of what this distinction is supposed to be. Weird...

Gonna do the other exercises tho, just dunno what to put for that one. May have to email the authors and ask (they gave an email address in the book for feedback....just hope it's still active...). Again, if anyone has this book and could double check for me to clarify this, that would be massive. Thx.

I'm stuck a well on this one. I agree they clearly state that hybrid chords are referred to as slash chords, but make a distinction between them in the exercise. And where did the polytonal chords go? ... I think they have mixed up polytonal chords and hybrid chords in the exercise. If you do the exercise with upper structure, polytonal, and slash... would that make sense? Looks ok to me, then

[gersdal]

Aside from these possible errors, it does seem a potentially good text, tho. It really stresses playing the material on your instrument and listening to the sounds. And the final chapters are devoted to a discussion of improvising and practicing - the comments on practice were fairly useful. I think google books lets you view certain chapters/excerpts from it, too.

One book on theory will never do. They will all have their weak sides, and luckily their strong sides. I'd at least need this lot when I run into questions (I have moore ):

[Scrybe]

True! And if you want/need a grounding in classical harmony, Anna Butterworth's Harmony In Practice is well worth it. Plus, half the exercises are in bass clef ('twas how I became proficient with the bassy cleffy thing, lmao).

What's the purple book like? Gonna order the Jazz Theory book soon. Already on my amazon list, heh heh.

[derek]

Regarding triads and the use of slashes to describe chords, my understanding is you have 4 possibilities. First, the slash describes an inversion. So Cmaj7/G is a 2nd inversion Cmaj7 with G (5th) in the bass. Pretty standard stuff. 2nd is the chord listed with a different bass note, per composer. Next is a description of a diatonic triad with the second triad providing upper extensions. C/D would be a C major triad with the 9th, #11, and 13 (from the D triad). Also pretty common. The 3rd is a bitonal, where you superimpose 2 nondiatonic triads together to get a new chord. I always found the term polytonal a misnomer, since it is only 2 tonalities we are working with.

If anyone has more to add to the above, I would be very interested. I dig this kind of thinking, and gets you hexatonic lines that are pretty cool. Players from Dickie Betts to Jimmy Herring to Larry Carlton to Pat Metheny use this sort of approach

[gersdal]

True! And if you want/need a grounding in classical harmony, Anna Butterworth's Harmony In Practice is well worth it. Plus, half the exercises are in bass clef ('twas how I became proficient with the bassy cleffy thing, lmao).

What's the purple book like? Gonna order the Jazz Theory book soon. Already on my amazon list, heh heh.

I actually prefer B Ligon's book to Mark Levine's book, but that's me Comes in Vol 1 & 2:


I don't know Anna Butterworth's Harmony In Practice. Thanks for the tip.

[Jeff Brent]

Currently "Jazzology" is available only in the "revised edition".

We are all awaiting the 2nd edition which is also supposed to contain an index.

My original proofreading turned up a great number of typos, and having sent the initial findings to Dr. Rawlins, I was told to go back and double check for more.

I did this (and it took months). The second set of typos and corrections that I sent Bob Rawlins has not yet seen the light of day.

Any typos and/or errors that you found in the revised edition of the book are because they have not been corrected yet by Hal Leonard.

I wish they would finally publish the second edition, but it's possible that they printed so many "revised editions" that Hal Leonard felt that they had to unload the already printed copies before issuing the second edition.

I've contacted Bob several times to ask when the second edition would come out, but he doesn't seem to have gotten an answer back from the publishing company.

Any work of this scope and breadth is bound to have a few inconsistencies, but until the second edition comes out it's kind of difficult for me to fully endorse the book.

There are even several instances where the "answers" in the back of the book are incorrect, so if you think you've got it right and the "answers" in the back conflict - you probably are right.

[Jeff Brent]

C/D would be a C major triad with the 9th, #11, and 13 (from the D triad).

C/D is most typically a C major triad over a D bass note.

a D triad over a C triad would most typically be notated:

D
C


Similarly a Bm7 chord over a C triad would be

Bm7
C

and a D major triad over a Cmaj7 would be

__D__
Cmaj7

[Scrybe]

Regarding triads and the use of slashes to describe chords, my understanding is you have 4 possibilities. First, the slash describes an inversion. So Cmaj7/G is a 2nd inversion Cmaj7 with G (5th) in the bass. Pretty standard stuff. 2nd is the chord listed with a different bass note, per composer. Next is a description of a diatonic triad with the second triad providing upper extensions. C/D would be a C major triad with the 9th, #11, and 13 (from the D triad). Also pretty common. The 3rd is a bitonal, where you superimpose 2 nondiatonic triads together to get a new chord. I always found the term polytonal a misnomer, since it is only 2 tonalities we are working with.

If anyone has more to add to the above, I would be very interested. I dig this kind of thinking, and gets you hexatonic lines that are pretty cool. Players from Dickie Betts to Jimmy Herring to Larry Carlton to Pat Metheny use this sort of approach

For polytonal - I've got a transcription of a Kenny Wheeler tune where at least one bar has three chords superimposed on each other, so maybe there is some use for that term....

Thank derek, and jeff, for your comments. Glad to know I'm not alone in finding flaws with this text. I still don't know why they differentiate between hybrid and slash chords in the exercises/answers when they don't differentiate between them in the explanations, but I'm just gonna skip that exercise for now and return to the idea when I have a clearer understanding of it from other sources. It's a shame I'm finding typos/errors with this text though, because it should be an excellent text once these issues have (hopefully) been resolved. Jeff - it was particularly enlightening to read your discussion of the publication process in light of this, many thanks for posting.

[gersdal]

Thanks Jeff,
The question that I found difficult was this one:

The next chapter is on triads, and covers polytonal chords and slash chords, too. When discussing slash chords, it gives them the sub-heading "Hybrid chords" then the first sentence says they're often referred to as slash chords. The exercises for that chapter include one where you're supposed to read chords from notation and label them as either Polytonal, Hybrid, or Slash. Quickly checked the back to see if the answers make a distinction between slash chords and hybrid chords, and they do. But the book makes no mention of what this distinction is supposed to be. Weird...

Gonna do the other exercises tho, just dunno what to put for that one. May have to email the authors and ask (they gave an email address in the book for feedback....just hope it's still active...). Again, if anyone has this book and could double check for me to clarify this, that would be massive. Thx.

My initial response was: I agree they clearly state that hybrid chords are referred to as slash chords, but make a distinction between them in the exercise. And where did the polytonal chords go? ... I think they have mixed up polytonal chords and hybrid chords in the exercise. If you do the exercise with upper structure, polytonal, and slash chards... wouldn't that make sense? Looks ok to me.

Is this one of the typos you have recognized?

Another thing: Is there any chance of having a copy of your revision 2 corrections? For us that have revision 1

[Jeff Brent]

Exercise 4 of Chapter 1 (Intervals) (p8), the fourth interval it asks you to write out is listed as...

+3, starting on a B natural. I notated it as xD (D double sharped, so sounding the same as an E natural). I assumed +3 meant augmented 3rd.

The answer book says it should be D sharp (sorry, no sharp button on my laptop - Mac). I know this would be a major 3rd from B natural, but I thought the symbol for major 3rd would be M3.

I think it's just an error in the book, but could do with someone to verify it for me. Thanks.

I only have the first edition at home, my revised edition is at the studio.

But I have the answer on page 232 marked in the 1st ed. as a double sharp as well.

So, this typo has been reported.


+ means "augmented" / "raised"

Compare the +4 (#4)(Ab to D) and the +9 (#9) (F to G#) on the line immediately below (bars 13 and 14 on pg 232).

[Jeff Brent]

The next chapter is on triads, and covers polytonal chords and slash chords, too.

When discussing slash chords, it gives them the sub-heading "Hybrid chords" then the first sentence says they're often referred to as slash chords.

The exercises for that chapter include one where you're supposed to read chords from notation and label them as either Polytonal, Hybrid, or Slash.

Quickly checked the back to see if the answers make a distinction between slash chords and hybrid chords, and they do. But the book makes no mention of what this distinction is supposed to be. Weird...

In the book right underneath it says "Some structures are subject to multiple interpretations".

A liberal translation might be "Think of them whatever way works best for you"

MI (multiple interpretations).

[Jeff Brent]

the slash describes an inversion.

So Cmaj7/G is a 2nd inversion Cmaj7 with G (5th) in the bass.

It is equally possible to have non-chord tones in the (slash)bass. The slash isn't limited to only describing inversions.

[Jeff Brent]

Thanks Jeff,
The question that I found difficult was this one:

My initial response was: I agree they clearly state that hybrid chords are referred to as slash chords, but make a distinction between them in the exercise.

Back to "multiple interpretations".

And where did the polytonal chords go? ... I think they have mixed up polytonal chords and hybrid chords in the exercise.

Back to "multiple interpretations".

Polytonal (or as derek said above "actually bi-tonal") chords are almost always the same as some upper extension structure. Think of them any way you want.

Another thing: Is there any chance of having a copy of your revision 2 corrections? For us that have revision 1

Dude, it's like 70 pages long and reeeaaalllly boring.

As long as you know there are bones in the fish, you will be careful when swallowing.

[LaVonne]

I just got the Jazzoligy book and I'm looking forward to diving in but after reading this thread I'm wondering if anyone has compiled a fairly comprehensive list of the errors.

[Scrybe]

only Jeff, from what I know. I'll keep this page updated with possible errors as and when I come across them, though. if you have some theory knowledge beforehand that will help you work out what is an error or not. speaking of which, me hand is too sore to practice, so I'm off to do a bit of Jazzology myself right now...