-
maybe there’s something wrong with me, but I don’t care about those people.
Originally Posted by jads57
But the crazy thing about guitar is sometimes someone who can barely play in the formal sense can do something really good. and sometimes people who are amazing at their craft have nothing to say.
so I’m ambivalent. Do what turns you on. Get into the things you are into.
YouTube is dumb, but I’m on it, so I can lay into it too much haha.
-
04-21-2020 02:46 PM
-
I also think there’s a background to all of this which is the slow death of the live circuit.
Online stuff is a poor replacement for that, but it might be something else. Music will evolve. This whole corona thing is pushing things forward very fast.
-
Oh no, the term 'real musician' has been introduced; this thread is going to do down hill fast! (ha ha).
But I should have assumed this is where a topic related to ignorance (lack of knowledge), would go.
To some to be a 'real musician' one has to have a certain degree of musical knowledge. While I understand this POV, I find the concept of 'real' as it relates to an art form \ artist misguided (at best).
Of course I'm just an amateur and that shapes my perspective; My profession is in IT and programming and I admit I used to use that 'real' concept there; e.g. if one didn't know java script, they aren't a "real" programmer \ IT professional. (I don't anymore since I can't keep up with the young hot shots!)
-
I’m not in IT but even I know people get snotty about code.
-
Just so Im not misunderstood. I would never ever go to someone else's job or field of endevour and and feel I'm on par with them at their job
The difference is many people feel they are entitled to feel on par with pro musicians that have no business doing so. Why because the public doesn't care, and always say it's not brain surgery.
Not many jobs are brain surgery, but people don't invade or allowed on the playing field. Sports,Medicine,Law,Plumbers,Carpenters, etc. Why does the public and even worse other musicians condone this?
No harm done? Sorry but music nowadays is at an all time creative low point!
I know you will all flame me for this statement.
But when people especially the pros aren't paid for their services,they don't work for free.
So name any music that is on par with any great Music of the past, pre IPhone era.
I can't ! Genre doesn't matter either. Again the actual music not the great younger players which I agree their are plenty of.
-
I use to work in systems, not really a proper programmer though, I did a bit of all kinds of things. Not long before I retired, I went to a meeting with some IT guys who all started talking about ‘Jenkins’ and ‘Git’. I didn’t have a clue what they were on about! Originally Posted by jameslovestal
-
"Yeah, but what have you done for me lately?" Originally Posted by jads57
-
Many people engage in all of these activities, right up until licensure requirements restrict them. Are you suggesting that musicians should be evaluated and licensed by the state before they can work? Originally Posted by jads57
I could name all sorts of music that means as much to those who appreciate it as what you appreciate means to you. Originally Posted by jads57
But you would only disagree, as you are not them.
So what would be the point?
-
I'm willing to go with a simple definition of "pro". You can make a living at music.
If I try to bring skill level into, I can't define it.
How do I evaluate a brilliant player/composer who doesn't read and can't improvise, even though jazz players cover his tunes?
Or, an absolute monster in almost every conceivable way on guitar who, when asked to play simple dance music, takes an inappropriate bop-ish solo?
Or, Tommy Tedesco, a guitarist's guitarist, who wrote that he wasn't the right call for certain styles?
Or, for that matter, a singer/songwriter who can barely play the guitar by certain standards, but who fills big rooms?
Nobody can do it all. So, how do I draw a line showing who has done enough?
I think it's impossible.
I wouldn't have posted if I wasn't sheltering.
-
I guess I'm sad that music is no longer an auditory experience as much as visual one mostly. And sure entertainment, especially the eye candy or circus has always been part wether it be Jimi Hendrix, etc.
I just bemoan that actual arrangers, musicians,etc People who are actually great and have the abilities George Martin, Arif Mardin, etc. are no longer needed.
These people and their abilities made even Pop music from Aretha, Norah Jones, Beatles ,Jeff Beck, even better!
I haven't even mentioned Nelson Riddle, Billy May, Henry Mancini,Duke Ellington, etc.
We are now in an almost totally narcissistic age of look at me I can do it all and sell it, so I must be great! Even the greats depended on others talents to make them their best.
And there is a bar that was set before, that's what history does. In sports it's a fact. Art may be suggestive to taste, but I definitely tell a McDonald's Cheeseburger from a Filet Mignon. And when that no longer holds true we are all the worse off for it.
I'm very saddened to say Music is Dead! Entertainment Won and took over completely!
-
The action in culture has moved to video games....
but there’s lots of great stuff around now. Is it good as the stuff in the past? Impossible to say, the stuff from the past has been filtered by the passing years into a Pantheon of classics.
checking out present music requires an open mind, an open heart and imagination.
I mean I know you don’t really care, feel free go back to your enjoyable Boomer moaning.
But I am not of the present generation, and I didn’t really appreciate a lot of the great stuff from my youth. A lot of that stuff sounds a lot better than I remember. Test of time... I think I owe it to myself to listen to what’s being done now and a lot of it is underground or just not in the cultural limelight.
Just like always.
-
.Can't say like always, and there in lies the problem .Will say over time music has been taken over by less knowledgeable musicians sometimes making interesting music, most time's not.
The final death nail came with the advent of the You Tube and the Iphone. It cut out all the real interactions which make music so great. As well as plugins that do all the cleansing, and loops (legos 2 and 4 bar format) replacing drummers, bassists,etc.
I guess like a little kid could claim being an architect amateurs can claim being musicians.
I'm 63 and grew up in the Hendrix ,Woodstock era. And even I realize the Golden Age of Music was really the 1950's give 10 years in either direction.
Again it goes down to real pros still coming together to make great Music.
Show me any great song in the last 10 years,any at all,any genre? It died when the tech revolution took over. And I admit Lady Gaga is super talented but her songs are mediocre at best. Same can be said of Bruno Mars, and other younger talent.Lowest common $$$ has made it so!
And shown people are basically clueless about appreciating the music itself from an auditory experience. Again thanks to MTV and now the Iphone and YouTube.
-
A lot of it is the discovery of somebody new, and sharing that discovery with friends, being part of the new sensation. YouTube is a social media platform; it encourages participation by commenting and sharing. Everybody wants to be the first in their circle to know about the latest star, who is usually young and attractive. If you want musicianship, you watch videos of kids in their bedrooms pedantically copying Holdsworth solos on guitars with an odd number of strings. Originally Posted by jads57
-
As long as we're comparing eras, Woodstock was in 1969. The Billboard number one song that year was Sugar Sugar by the Archies.
And, of all the songs in the top 100, just off the top of my head, the one I've heard the most in the last 10 years is probably Sweet Caroline.
-
And preformed by Tommy Tedesco,Hail Blaine, Carol Kaye,etc the Wrecking Crew. Even they knew it was polishing turds musically. But they did a good job polishing a lot of them. And because they were very good at it,they were paid well!
Again shows the public basically was ignorant to music. Nowadays we have loops that do that for people. But the turds are considered great, because it sells.
Used to be the promoter who pushed that agenda, not the actual musicians.
-
" But the turds are considered great, because it sells."
"The final death nail came with the advent of the You Tube and the Iphone. It cut out all the real interactions which make music so great."
"We are now in an almost totally narcissistic age of look at me I can do it all and sell it, so I must be great!"
"And there is a bar that was set before, that's what history does. In sports it's a fact. Art may be suggestive to taste, but I definitely tell a McDonald's Cheeseburger from a Filet Mignon. And when that no longer holds true we are all the worse off for it."
"The difference is many people feel they are entitled to feel on par with pro musicians that have no business doing so. Why because the public doesn't care, and always say it's not brain surgery."
"But when people especially the pros aren't paid for their services,they don't work for free."
"My bitch is the people who think they are pros just because they are popular on Youtube,etc. If that is the new litmus test,count me out and music dead!" Jads57
C'mon guys,
Jads has some great lines here! I don't understand how any serious working musician could disagree. We live in a world of instant gratification and the "least common denominator" as a standard of judgment. It's infectious . . . it's endemic worldwide . . it may be irreversible. Good playing . . . Marinero
-
As snotty as some jazz guitarist are towards non jazz guitarist? Originally Posted by christianm77
-
Watch this member of the new generation. Maybe some of you won't feel so depressed about the state of music today and the younger generation.
-
Again agreed with level of great young players. It's the music itself that is being produced that has no real greatness or originality imo.
Where are the Jimi Hendrix's,Jaco's, Coltrane, and this is true in every genre since the technology revolution.
Again my contention is we live now live in the Visual Age as opposed to an Audio age when it comes to music. Also popularity is of utmost importance as opposed to actual content.
Hard to be inventive if all you do is follow!
-
Hip hop revolutionalized music. Rock music developed into different genres. I'm no expert, but it seems to me there have been massive changes in the way some types of rock or rock-influenced music are played. No blues base to the harmony, EVH and shredding styles are all innovative, whether they're to your taste or not. Funk styles are not so young anymore, but they were a revolution in the mid 60s and influenced jazz shortly thereafter. Originally Posted by jads57
I can't tell what is going now which is likely to have a lasting influence in jazz. I do hear young innovative musicians. Jacob Collier leaps to mind. Dirty Loops. Some others, whose names escape me right now. Smooth jazz might turn out to have some influence. On guitar, maybe Scofield?
-
Reminds me of the Monkees, the original Milli Vanilli Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
-
My gramps was bitching about the same shit in 1962....it seems to be relative amongst the old geezer club.
-
Follow young trends and there is the $$$ .Not about music,but entertaiment to profit off of. Thats what Pop is all about,and I get it wether it was Chuck Berry or Jay Z.
But when actual musicians were involved in the process, it was more musical. As Quincy Jones said so famously when the spirit leaves the room,so does the music!
By the way Gramps was correct, smart man indeed!
-
I think you are overly hung up on what’s in the charts.
-
Its not all doom and gloom, you can always go watch Sophia Wackermann on American Idol. I wonder if it will ever come up in conversation with those people how she sung ‘Against the Clock’ with her dad at one of the Allan Holdsworth memorial concerts, reprising her mother Naomi Star’s role on AH’s Wardenclyffe Tower Originally Posted by jads57
Reply With Quote
Rialto Archtop Guitars UK
Yesterday, 07:04 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos