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A lot of times, if you try to copy something, it can seem really difficult to nail the sound.
But, if you finally figure out how the original player did it, it's often physically pretty easy.
I don't need to be reminded that there are exceptions. I have seen players up close do astonishing things.
I first learned it when trying to play Honky Tonk Women in standard tuning. Pretty much impossible to get it to sound the same. In Keith's tuning, it's easy.
Same thing for the Rolling Stones, This Could Be The Last Time. Brian Jones had a not-obvious way of playing that lick. Once you know what he did, it's easy.
Some of the Brazilian chording is like that (some is hard no matter how you do it). Dori Caymmi's Migration comes to mind. Impossible to nail the sound, unless you figure out what he did, and then it's easy.
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04-20-2020 02:08 AM
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Or Craig Milner, or Molly Tuttle
Originally Posted by jads57
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Well Allan Holdsworth wouldn’t have made half of his records if he hadn’t done it himself. Originally Posted by jads57
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The first time I saw a capo was with the folk group Peter, Paul and Mary in the 60's. A few Country guys also used them. I bought one, used it a couple of times and then it sat in my case for over 50 years. I still have it. It's like new. Any offers? Good playing . . . Marinero
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Since this is turning into a Capo thread, may I add that Flamenco players use them all the time and they are absolutely smoking. Probably wouldn't know the chords' names, though.
Personally, I use it on a couple of tunes to get the feel of open strings while playing in horn-friendly keys. Also, playing the Peter Gunn riff in F for four minutes straight is somewhat demanding.
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Another style of music that absolutely need the open strings for the sound.
TBH I’m starting to feel bad I don’t use a capo.
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And then there are the various partial capos......
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Tony Mcmanus. Alt tuning and capo. Double cheater
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Albert Collins capoed his Tele somewhere around the 9th fret and played in an open tuning to a minor chord.
He was an absolute master of screaming blues.
Should somebody have told him not to do that?
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Of course not, and I don't see where anyone here has ever implied that. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
The topic is "guitarist the Most ignorant": As it relates to musicians, being ignorant doesn't mean one is a lesser musician. Being told one is ignorant isn't a put-down. Every musician is ignorant of some aspect of music.
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Agreed on all points. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
Many Jazz guitarist are quite ignorant as to the scope and diversity of capo use by serious guitarists in other genres.
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Post 138? Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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I agree with that. I really do. Good to see we have a common understanding. Originally Posted by wengr
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Here is post #138: Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
"The only time a capo is justified is if you need a song in a different key for a singer and you're trying to get that sound that results from open string chords like you're trying to duplicate an arrangement you got off a recording. Otherwise you should know how to play songs in all 12 keys".
I agree that this statement is too broad especially as it relates to "only time a capo is justified"; First one doesn't need to 'justify' use of a capo or pedal etc... (anything used with a guitar that alters the sound). In addition the ',,, in a different key for a singer and you're trying to get that sound results from open string chords,,": that 'and' should be an 'or', as in 'one is trying to get an open string sound".
Isn't the latter what Collins was doing with "played in an open tuning to a minor chord"?
Bottom line; many musicians use a capo to get a certain sound and NOT because they lack knowledge of how to play movable \ bar chords or in more than the standard open chord keys. But some amateur guitarist do use a capo because of lack of knowledge, as well as ambition. I know this for a fact since these guys are my friends. I.e. we all have been playing guitar for decades and they still can only play the same 5 or 6 open string chords. E.g. If a song calls for a C minor,,,, the capo has to come out.
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Post #138 was mine. You have to remember what is the primary purpose of this site is and that is playing jazz on the guitar. That's what I was referring to when I talked about the only justification. Guys who play other kinds of music do what they need to get certain effects but in jazz which is not an easy subject to master need different requirement which is the ability to play in all kinds of keys since we deal with other instruments like horns and singers. Yes, I consider the human voice an instrument. To play a lot of jazz and standards, you kind of need more skills than you do rock or country. Now that's not knocking rock or country because a lot of jazz musicians with a hell of a lot of skills play other kinds of music. But on this site, the focus is jazz. Now I'm going to stop ranting here because I don't want to dig myself into a deeper hole than I already have.
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There are always hurdles to get over in every job. And while record companies were pretty awful, studio time was expensive as well as marketing.
Bu the good thing was The average Joe couldn't compete with professionals on an equal footing. You had to have earned a ticket to get in.
Imagine an amateur golfer at a PGA tournament. Doesn't happen, so why so in music? And why is it passed off as actual recordings ? I say it's incredibly disrespectful to professional music comunity.
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Classic American jazz guitar didn't use open strings much, as far as I know.
Brazilian jazz uses open strings a lot. To get the original sound right, it helps to play those exact voicings, with the same ringing quality of open strings.
If you want the original sound in a different key, the capo is the right tool for the job.
If you want to know 6 chords and use a capo to know 12 or 18 etc., fine with me. Since there are too many guitar styles and too many things to know, we all have to draw a line someplace.
That said, I think I understand the sentiment of the posts and I generally agree.
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Often, "ignorant" may tend to mean "not like what I know, not like I do it, not like me".
I play
with my thumb behind the neck, never lopped over
with all four fingers, always, all styles, all positions
with a pick, reverse circular efficiency picking
by ear exclusively, jazz and all styles
knowing theory but never using it
making up new chords as needed
having read music since childhood but having never used a lead sheet
without a capo, I've used my index finger as a capo to play cowboy chords up the neck
etc...
By the definition above, I should find virtually all guitarists to be ignorant.
But notice that ignorant is cognate to ignore, which is what one should do.
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Technique isn't what I'm referring to. Content of vocabulary, repertoire, time in the saddle, doing it for real,not a Nintendo game. And while there are many different styles and genres of music,they all have the same 3 components.
Melody,Rhthm,and Harmony, at least Western music does.
No being well versed in all 3 components as well as knowing your instrument makes for a poor musician. Also not understanding repertoire in different genres of music and how it works is extremely important.
Oscar Peterson interviewed felt history of music was younger musicians biggest weakness. Couldnt agree more!
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this post is only a provocation made by an idiot..
I learned music the hardest way I could,all my Life
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That's pretty unfair, Emil. I think it has created some interesting remarks and provocative discussions. Good playing . . . Marinero Originally Posted by emilP
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I have to concur that this thread is actually a load of old guff.
But then I don’t run into too many idiot guitar players these days. Which is not to say they don’t exist. But they’re not working.
And then there’s people who are basic in their guitar knowledge but songwriters primarily. I can’t do that very well. Can you?
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I could,when I was working with my daughter in law,who's a singer
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Fair enough! I'm ranting as an old guff professional guitaristwhos done everything from playing with famous people Doc Severensen, Bonnie Raitt, Alexander Oneill. Non famous locals Debbie Duncan, The Steeles, Prudence Johnson,etc
National jingles Target, Hormel,etc, local jingles. Church gigs, Lutheran,Evangelical,Jewish, Catholic, etc. Teaching at Votech Colleges,
Played every Cou try Club and Bar rich to poor.
Played almost every style form Great American Songbook, Old School R&B, Hip Hop, Blues old and newer, Country old and new Pop old and newer to Katy Perry etc.
In other words I got paid to play music. Not saying I'm great at all of it,far from it!
But to do that requires knowledge of how to navigate music and it's elements.
Did I choose to learn all those styles and genre's of music ? NO, but it has broadened my abilities as a musician.
Also true no one needs to do all of those things to be a good musician. But it definitely helps and makes you a more well rounded one.
My bitch is the people who think they are pros just because they are popular on Youtube,etc. If that is the new litmus test,count me out and music dead!
Caveat: Non of this is directed at amateur musicians.Just those who consider themselves pros without doing the actual work and time as a real musician.
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"My bitch is the people who think they are pros just because they are popular on Youtube,etc. If that is the new litmus test,count me out and music dead!
Caveat: Non of this is directed at amateur musicians.Just those who consider themselves pros without doing the actual work and time as a real musician." Jads57
Sounds reasonable to me, Jads. Good playing . . . Marinero
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