Guitarists the Most Ignorant?

[Marinero]

I guess the frustrating part is that you can spend multiple lifetimes in the shed, master every bit of theory and technique, and still not sound very good.

Even worse, the converse is also true. Which is that you can sound good without doing almost any of that -- except develop your ear, have good time and be able to put what's in your mind onto the guitar.

Great post, RP!
However, for many, its the journey and not necessarily the goal. And, for all of us who have found ourselves hopelessly addicted to this illusive Art, whether we become what we want or not musically, we keeping coming back because the feeling we have for even a few brief bars of expressiveness is worth the journey. Musicians, in my opinion, are born . . . not made. And, it has nothing to do with real competency but rather the need to speak through your instrument . . .whether good or bad. Good playing . . . Marinero

[hot ford coupe]

or that they are the same chord with different bass notes for that matter....

Yeah. I know.

[jads57]

I'm not sure Born is the prerequisite to being anything in life. That said having natural talent sure helps,as well as access to a family in the business already.
I think it's perseverance and will that help the most.

Also it used to be apprenticeship or learning on the job was most helpful. But with the lack of actual work nowadays and the barriers put up by technology. I use in ear monitors, recording individually, etc. These are great for saving money and the ability for one person to make a recording.As well as correcting mistakes
Not so great at real interaction between actual musicians and groove!

I think personally the best music made was by an actual band interacting with each other. Classical,Jazz,Rock,Blues,Country,etc. Sure multitrack recording has do e some great things like Sgt Peppers, Steely Dan, to mention a few. But the heart and soul is always the rhythm section!

[christianm77]

Yeah. I know.

do I get any points?

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...] Steely Dan, to mention a few. [...]

The title track was recorded with the session band all together in the studio, though I don't know if Becker and Fagen layered any tracks later. But the rhythm section, guitars, Wooten on vibes, and Fagen on synth tracked together. I believe Shorter overdubbed his solo.

From the Wiki:

Three music stands were required to hold the charts for each player in the rhythm section;^[19]) despite that complexity, the song took very little time to record, in contrast to the other songs on Aja, all of which were simpler.^[c] Originally, they planned to rehearse for a day before beginning to record, but changed their mind after one performance. "Steve Gadd, being a fantastic drummer, is a fantastic sight reader and didn't really need to rehearse; neither did the rest of the band," Becker told Steely Dan historian Brian Sweet in 2007.^[6] During a 2000 BBC online chat Fagen recalled discarding some other sections set aside for solos, "because nobody was comfortable with [them]."^[6]

[hot ford coupe]

do I get any points?

Yes. You've got your head on straight. I award your house, Griffindor 50 points.

[christianm77]

Yes. You've got your head on straight. I award your house, Griffindor 50 points.

Splendid.

[Litterick]

But the heart and soul is always the rhythm section!

What do you call somebody who hangs out with musicians?
A guitarist.

[jads57]

That would be me as I've so often found out!

[zigzag]

Great post, RP!
However, for many, its the journey and not necessarily the goal. And, for all of us who have found ourselves hopelessly addicted to this illusive Art, whether we become what we want or not musically, we keeping coming back because the feeling we have for even a few brief bars of expressiveness is worth the journey. Musicians, in my opinion, are born . . . not made. And, it has nothing to do with real competency but rather the need to speak through your instrument . . .whether good or bad. Good playing . . . Marinero

The Salieri Curse.

[jameslovestal]

What do you call somebody who hangs out with musicians?
A guitarist.

I call them capo users.

[jads57]

Although Glenn Cambell used a capo way back when on a Righteous Brothers Song "You've Lost That Lovin Feeling " to great advantage. And Glenn was one of the most Natural Born great guitarists ever!

[christianm77]

I call them capo users.

Literally the whole of Nashville: am I a joke to you?

[jameslovestal]

Literally the whole of Nashville: am I a joke to you?

Oh no, looks like I stepped into a pile of do-do. Big fan of Tony Rice and have all of the recordings he did with David Grisman. Not a fan of country music. I do understand that when singing, especially in a key one isn't use to, using a capo is often the way to go. Having to re-learn non 'cowboy' chords (open chords \ folk chords), and singing at the same time, isn't easy.

Anyhow, I assume you're just teasing here; often I have found that those that use a capo, especially singers where singing is their primary musical interest, only know and can play those 'cowboy' chords. E.g. they only know 1 voicing for each chord and they have memorized those, and only those, for the songs they play. Thus they have to use a capo to change keys.

[jads57]

I take the Capo User comment as many of the kids who play in worship bands and play acoustic guitar. I hate reading those charts. Especially original key Capo 5 etc. Learn to at least transpose!

[wengr]

Never got the capo hate. There is guitar outside of Jazz guitar, and many of the world's most respected players use a capo to create music that cannot be made otherwise. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

[jads57]

I think the dislike comes from lack of respect for actually taking the time to learn both music and your instrument itself. You rarely find these type of shortcuts on learning other instruments,at least professionally.

I've always found myself being the guitarist, not as knowledgeable as many of the other band members. And again I'm talking with professional musicians who make a living doing this.

I guess nowadays with loops and backing tracks,it almost becomes a moot point.
But I definitely feel as guitarists we led the way to dumbing down music compositionally, harmonically, and in just learning our craft.
I actually understand the older Jazz generation that use to say " Your music for the most part is crap!" Especially now professional orchestras are forced to play the music of my generations teenage Rock Bands, and usually not best bands,lol!

[Ukena]

Let us not forget that Irving Berlin could only play in one key, F# (the pentatonic scale is all black keys). He had two transposing pianos – built with a virtual capo, if you will – that enabled key changes with a lever.

He could not read music, but it didn't prove to be much of a liability...

[jads57]

Irving Berlin was a composer first and foremost. I would use someone like George Gershwin who did both as a better example.

[Stevebol]

I'm a pop guitarist. I taped the charts to my forehead while I danced the stage like Jesse Johnson of the Time.

[Stevebol]

What is great harmony?

Bach. Gospel.

[jads57]

Agreed on that and when Pop walked away from those templates, it really lost all of its musicality for me at least.

[Stevebol]

Agreed on that and when Pop walked away from those templates, it really lost all of its musicality for me at least.

The Bach and Gospel?
That and when Prince became a movie star. That was about the end of pop. It reached a zenith of sorts around 1983- 84.

[Ukena]

Irving Berlin was a composer first and foremost. I would use someone like George Gershwin who did both as a better example.

Irving Berlin was certainly one of the foremost composers of the USA, but he was not first a composer. He started out as a performer, singing and accompanying himself on piano (self-taught). I only made (light) reference to him in comparison to guitarists who use capos.

[wengr]

I think the dislike comes from lack of respect for actually taking the time to learn both music and your instrument itself. You rarely find these type of shortcuts on learning other instruments,at least professionally.

I've always found myself being the guitarist, not as knowledgeable as many of the other band members. And again I'm talking with professional musicians who make a living doing this.

I guess nowadays with loops and backing tracks,it almost becomes a moot point.
But I definitely feel as guitarists we led the way to dumbing down music compositionally, harmonically, and in just learning our craft.
I actually understand the older Jazz generation that use to say " Your music for the most part is crap!" Especially now professional orchestras are forced to play the music of my generations teenage Rock Bands, and usually not best bands,lol!

Interesting as my experience is the complete opposite. I pay my bills (well before the apocalypse) by playing and teaching so I guess I am a professional of some sort.
I never see guitar player in pro situations using a capo unless there is need for it. For my situations our job is usually to reproduce covers of many styles in an accurate an engaging fashion. If that requires a capo then so be it.
Now on the other hand, I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been playing a tune in F#, Bb, Q squared or whatever, and I look over and the keyboard player is only playing the white keys. I think if they had acoustic instruments they would be out of business.