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I am looking for 2nd opinions regarding chord names in different languages and if / how their abbreviations are changed too? Such as....
E major
C suspended 4th aka Csus4
G minor 7 flat 5 aka Gm7b5
F diminished or F augmented
etc.
For example, would C suspended 4th be changed in both its full naming and abbreviation, or just its full name while abbreviation remains the same "sus4" so it can be universally understood in different languages? i.e. "C (foreign word for Suspended) 4th" aka C (abbreviation of foreign word for Suspended) 4th
I've seen that the Spanish word for minor is "menor" so abbreviating D minor to Dm isn't a problem as both words begin with the letter m. What about words that are different enough that they can't share the same abbreviation however? e.g. the word diminished in Spanish is "disminuida" so would a Ddim chord be something like "Ddis" / "Ddism" or just stay as Ddim?
Many Thanks,
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12-28-2019 05:12 PM
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Other languages don't even us the same names for the different keys. C D E F G A B is only for English.
Dm in Spanish is re menor.
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We call B to H and Bb to B in Hungarian, do not ask why. Pretty disturbing btw.
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Same in Germany and very embarassing. Allegedly it comes from monks who back then copied books by hand (before Gutenberg) and there was a soft "b" with a round belly and a hard "b" with an angular belly (relating to Bb and B respectively) and someone started to copy the hard "b" as an "h". This should have been corrected a long time ago.
Originally Posted by Gabor
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We have a big band chart that has H on it--took the piano player and me a bit of head scratching to figure it out.
Danny W.
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Interesting thanks. I looked around for that and found this website uses Dm and Re menor Acorde Dm piano (Re menor) - AcordesPIANO.com Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
The video on this one includes Rem7 and Dm7 for the video title Re menor septima - Aprende como se toca este acorde
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All the Spanish musicians I have known convert on the fly, from reading so many charts in English. Try searching for the "acordes" to All The Things You Are and see what comes up
Anyway, Bbmaj7 takes up a lot less space than si bemol séptima mayor.
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And what would they be teaching grade school age musicians at school? Originally Posted by Peter C
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I moved to the UK from the US and rhythmic nomenclature is preposterous. Minims, Crotchets, Semi-brevs, Quavers, Semi-Quavers, Hemi-Quavers, Demi-Quavers, Semi-Hemi-Quavers, Semi-Hemi-Demi-Quavers. For those of you who don't know already, can you guess which is which? Me neither. Folks in my choir all agree that the American rhythmic nomenclature makes more sense...but they won't go there. It's actually quite hilarious.
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But it allows composers to use the Bach motif. Originally Posted by TOMMO
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si bemol séptima mayor Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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In most countries where I've had the chance to play, chord sheet notation follows the UK/US norms but orally people use the longer local form. For example, in France a songbook will show Bb7, but people will say "si bémol 7".
As YouTube usage has extended over recent years there seems to be a global trend towards the UK/US notation..... but we are far from harmonisation..
I've never had difficulty with UK naming of notes. To me, the US system is just as illogical in 3/4 time when a "quarter" is in fact a third of a bar or measure, not a quarter.....it's a question of habit and what you're used to
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All interesting replies thanks. This online translator I've been using is good...
DeepL Translator
If you put in "C major" for English then translate to Spanish it gives "Do mayor". "A major" only gives "La mayor" when you enter context e.g. "music chord A major" otherwise "A major" could be other contexts and the AI won't know which (e.g. "A major undertaking" for example).
If you put chord abbreviations in it won't change them though. For example "music chord A9sus4/E" does not translate to "La9sus4/Mi" (for the A9sus4/E bit).
I wonder if any books use both terms for different situations? For instance if it described the chord in text it might refer to it as "si bémol 7" but for chord diagrams or song chart have Bb7. Is it acceptable to use both like this I wonder? Originally Posted by Ray175
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Merci Patlock. Puis-je vous demander comment vous pourriez écrire A9sus4/F en Français? S'il vous plaît ne répondez pas en français je suis juste en train d'être aventureux avec DeepL! Originally Posted by Patlotch
I found this book's Look Inside shows that the Spanish (I think he is Spanish?) author uses both Do Re Me and C D E terms but mostly the C D E terms it seems. That seems more practical in terms of limited space for a fretboard diagram of note names. He also uses the C D E terms for constituent notes of chords from Ejercicio 10 and upward.
https://www.amazon.es/Curso-completo.../dp/1545221642
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Would anyone know what Spanish is for "Picking" and "Alternate picking" in the context of guitar (as opposed to what appears to end up as "choosing" when I translate "picking" to Spanish) please?
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guitar pick: púa de guitarra Originally Posted by Arpeggio
alternation: alternancia
in the Spanish sentences, we hear for jazz the English expressions, there is apparently no problem of understanding
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Most useful thanks Patlotch. "alternancia" could be useful. The word for "picking" or to "pick" I have trouble with. According to this "Pulsa" is to pluck Pulsa | Spanish to English Translation - SpanishDictInteresting how it looks like the property of an action (pulsate) is the word for the action itself (pluck a string) in Spanish. If in English you were to “pulsate” a guitar string, I can’t think of what else this could mean other than to make it pulsate by plucking it. Maybe "alternation de tocar" or "alternation de pulsa". Originally Posted by Patlotch
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I unfortunately can't help you, I'm even worse in Spanish than in English. It is only in Slovak that I am bilingual, ask my Old friend Cosmic Gumbo Originally Posted by Arpeggio
you can't find a translation of some jazz guitar terms into Spanish, it's simply because Spanish jazz guitarists use English terms, like the French and many others. This is also the case in Japan, but it is less evident, because they write the Western words with Katakana imitating the American accent
if Westerners knew Japanese jazz magazines, they would be amazed. They are very thick, often luxurious. It would also be very interesting to know what pedagogy they use, given the fact that music teaching is quite different from ours
To get back to the subject, Japanese are very good at Afro-Cuban music and Flamenco
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despite being French and bilingual English/French I have no idea of what would be the pure French way of notating this chord, although I perfectly understand what it means like virtually all French jazz musicians do I guess. Originally Posted by Arpeggio
I might be tempted to write "LA neuvième suspendu en quarte, basse FA", but I'm not sure at all.
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Picking is "punteado". That said, we generally just use the original term in English; it's usually a lot shorter. Originally Posted by Arpeggio
El movimiento adecuado para el Alternate Picking. You could say púa alternada, but no one bothers.
Leccion de Sweep Picking basico para principiantes
El Fingerpicking, también llamado Fingerstyle
Con el Hybrid Picking se consigue una armonía muy original
palm mute consiste en enmudecer las cuerdas con la palma de la mano
Alternate picking: golpes alternados hacia arriba y abajo
More here, pretty complete:
Todas las tecnicas de guitarra - Escribir Canciones
¡Saludos!
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Sorry for the delay I've been working on some other easier stuff since last post. Well actually no, pretty difficult lol, translating poems that rhyme. Completely changing them to make them still rhyme.
Thanks. I am still feeling a little unsure about all this but your post and others here are giving me more info to base these decisions on. Originally Posted by Patlotch
We went for these in Spanish. Originally Posted by mhch
A9sus4 (A9 de 4ta suspendida)
A9sus4/E (A9 de 4ta suspendida sobre E)
Thanks for that, most useful. I think my problem is my perspective. A person who is already Spanish will likely already know what they can “get away with” in terms of using original English words, from their years of experience reading in Spanish and noticing those words. My perspective being English and translating into a language I don’t know, I am clueless on that front; not already knowing, or at least needing to find out, the specific words that the Spanish leave as their original English. Originally Posted by Peter C
As a sort of insurance, due to that, I am inclined to make best effort to translate everything into Spanish. I think that this can’t do any harm so long as it makes sense in Spanish? e.g. Hybrid has a word in Spanish Híbrido It seems there’s a couple of Spanish candidates for the word picking / plucking…
Punteado (2.a)
Punteado | Spanish to English Translation - SpanishDict
Pulsa (3.a)
Pulsa | Spanish to English Translation - SpanishDict
Is the .ar in the URL you posted for Argentina I wonder? There are several different versions of Spanish. I need to use what’s known as International Spanish so the translator(s) tell me.
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If you don't know a language and the culture/s in which it is spoken, translation is a no-no.
Over the years, I've spoken to jazz/rock/blues players from several Spanish-speaking countries and they all generally use the English terms, as I already pointed out. You do whatever you see fit.
BTW, I've been bilingual in three languages* for over 30 years and have no idea what "international Spanish" (español neutro) is supposed to be.
(*I'll be here all week, folks)
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I'll be confused all week! So then....it has to be knowing what specific words remain English in that case. For "Barre chord", or "root note" or "Fret" I've only noticed Spanish using "Cejilla", "nota raíz" and "traste" but never the English terms, so I'd need to distinguish that sort of thing. Your link will be good for future reference. The varying ways it presents language terms seems to reflect a grey area between the two? There's a Spanish explanation of the English title.... Originally Posted by Peter C
Alternate picking: Consiste en golpes alternados hacia arriba y abajo. English = Alternate picking: Consists of alternating up and down strokes.
An actual Spanish term given...
Sweep picking: En español se conoce como barridos: English = Sweep picking: In Spanish it is known as barridos:
and the English term in brackets after the Spanish...
Técnicas híbridas (Hybrid picking):
I think I'd like to opt for the latter, both ES and EN with EN in brackets for titles. That would need there to be a Spanish term to start with, which going by that website isn't always the case, therefore I would need to translate. For instance...
Alternation de pulsa (Alternate Picking): esto es usar golpes hacia abajo y hacia arriba para tirar de las cuerdas.
That way I think, I can satisfy more potential angles. My priority is just to not be ambiguous to the reader, I don't mind style.
I suppose International Spanish must be some kind of bare vanilla version without any nuances of any of the different kinds of Spanish. Lastly, not too important, but I wonder if the following is Spanish phonetic spelling of fret?
b) Freet tapping con acordes
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I'm not sure if this is 100% ontopic.
But guitar parts have funny and confusing names in my country, so I always like to use english terms.
Cause of strange names, ........
Friend did call me once. He was looking for guitar repair man, and ask me if I knew someone. He has Les Paul .... He said his nut was broken.
And nut in my language has very similar and strange name to one of bridge pieces on Les Paul.
So first I thought like, his one tailpiece was broken or like 1 saddle is messed up something.
So I was like looking for replacement on internet.
Then he told me like, that his nut was broken. Not like tailpiece. XD
We get like terms from foreign languages for musical terms (usually italian).
But for like guitar parts we have like strange names .... -.-
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It is confusing. I notice the Spanish use the same term for the nut and barre chords (cejilla). I try to look for a consensus by spotting the most frequently used term for something. I search for "Guitar Parts" or "Parts of the Guitar" in whatever language e.g. "partes de la guitarra" into Google image search gives lots of labelled diagrams. Originally Posted by Mecena
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