How much music theory do I need before getting into jazz?

**joe2758** · 03-05-2019, 01:09 PM

I'm really interested in this thread from a pedagogy stand point ( idon't teach, but still)

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Great, so we know all we need to know to construct seventh chord shell voicings.

Make me a D major seventh chord (D^7) - that's adding the interval shapes for the major third and major seventh (3+7.)

x 5 4 5 x x x..?

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

x 5 4 5 x x x..?

That’s a dominant seventh chord

This has a major third and minor seventh (3 + b7)

Now change it so it’s a major seventh chord, with a major seventh instead (3+7)

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

That’s a dominant seventh chord

This has a major third and minor seventh (3 + b7)

Now change it so it’s a major seventh chord, with a major seventh instead (3+7)

ohh okay. x 5 4 6 x x?

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

ohh okay. x 5 4 6 x x?

Boom

Ok, now minor seventh which has minor third and seventh

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Boom

Ok, now minor seventh which has minor third and seventh

x 5 3 6 x x? Right now we are doing with the 5th string as root. Usually you do with the 6thstring as root 5th muted and other stuff on the other strings. Will we get into that after this?

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

x 5 3 6 x x? Right now we are doing with the 5th string as root. Usually you do with the 6thstring as root 5th muted and other stuff on the other strings. Will we get into that after this?

What kind of seventh has that chord got? Major or minor?

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

What kind of seventh has that chord got? Major or minor?

Minor. Thats what you tolv me to do right?

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

Minor. Thats what you tolv me to do right?

Have another look.

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Have another look.

X546XX major and X536XX minor because it is a minor 3rd instead of major 3rd

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Have another look.

Ohh the seventh ok

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

Ohh the seventh ok

So that's a minor major seventh chord... It's a cool sound, but not one of our basic four:

Major 7 - 1 3 5 7
Dominant 7 - 1 3 5 b7
Minor 7 - 1 b3 5 b7
Minor7b5 - 1 b3 b5 b7

OK, so looking at those four chord recipes, what jumps out at you?

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

So that's a minor major seventh chord... It's a cool sound, but not one of our basic four:

Major 7 - 1 3 5 7
Dominant 7 - 1 3 5 b7
Minor 7 - 1 b3 5 b7
Minor7b5 - 1 b3 b5 b7

OK, so looking at those four chord recipes, what jumps out at you?

Nothing special I guess...

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

Nothing special I guess...

So, what would a shell voicing for minor7b5 be? What intervals?

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

So that's a minor major seventh chord... It's a cool sound, but not one of our basic four:

Major 7 - 1 3 5 7
Dominant 7 - 1 3 5 b7
Minor 7 - 1 b3 5 b7
Minor7b5 - 1 b3 b5 b7

OK, so looking at those four chord recipes, what jumps out at you?

X535XX is the correct answer for minor 7 right?

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

So that's a minor major seventh chord... It's a cool sound, but not one of our basic four:

Major 7 - 1 3 5 7
Dominant 7 - 1 3 5 b7
Minor 7 - 1 b3 5 b7
Minor7b5 - 1 b3 b5 b7

OK, so looking at those four chord recipes, what jumps out at you?

.. what is a b5? B3 is minor 3rd and b7 minor 7th is b5 minor 5th?

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

So, what would a shell voicing for minor7b5 be? What intervals?

Well I guess I have to use 4 notes in that case right? Because the 3rd and 7th are the same as minor.

**cmajor9** · 03-05-2019, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

.. what is a b5? B3 is minor 3rd and b7 minor 7th is b5 minor 5th?

A lowered (b) 5th isn't considered 'minor. but rather 'diminished'. Similarly, a raised 5th is 'augmented'.

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by cmajor9

A lowered (b) 5th isn't considered 'minor. but rather 'diminished'. Similarly, a raised 5th is 'augmented'.

Ohh okay. But is it 6 Seminotes?

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by cmajor9

A lowered (b) 5th isn't considered 'minor. but rather 'diminished'. Similarly, a raised 5th is 'augmented'.

Shush

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

Well I guess I have to use 4 notes in that case right? Because the 3rd and 7th are the same as minor.

We don't have to at all. We can just play the same shell voicing as we do for minor7b5... We get around to adding 5ths eventually, but let's keep it simple for now.

We have our 4 basic chords anyway:
x 5 4 6 x x = D^7 or Dmaj7 = D major 7th
x 5 4 5 x x = D7 = D dominant 7th
x 5 3 5 x x = Dm7 or D-7 = D minor 7th
x 5 3 5 x x = Dm7b5 = D minor 7th flat 5

OK, so take a look at this shell voicing and tell me what you think of the intervals. The chord is Dmaj7

10 x 11 11 x x

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

We don't have to at all. We can just play the same shell voicing as we do for minor7b5... We get around to adding 5ths eventually, but let's keep it simple for now.

We have our 4 basic chords anyway:
x 5 4 6 x x = D^7 or Dmaj7 = D major 7th
x 5 4 5 x x = D7 = D dominant 7th
x 5 3 5 x x = Dm7 or D-7 = D minor 7th
x 5 3 5 x x = Dm7b5 = D minor 7th flat 5

OK, so take a look at this shell voicing and tell me what you think of the intervals. The chord is Dmaj7

10 x 11 11 x x

10 is root the first 11 is major 7th I am not sure what the 2nd 11 is. Also, so you play d minor 7th the same way as d minor 7th flat 5 if you dont use the fifths?
edit: I think the second 11 is the third. But that like one octave and a 3rd? A 3rd is 4 steps this seem to be 16 steps from the root note.

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

10 is root the first 11 is major 7th I am not sure what the 2nd 11 is.

Cool. Yes.

The second 11 is a third, but because it's an octave higher than a normal third we call it a 10th.

(10ths are actually amazingly useful on guitar, you can imply a lot of harmony with just that interval.)

So, this a major 10th

10 x x 11 x x

Why don't we just use the notes in the same order as before? I'll come to that.

Also, so you play d minor 7th the same way as d minor 7th flat 5 if you dont use the fifths?

For now, yes.

So, next question, can you tab out dominant 7th, minor 7/minor7b5 using this new shape:

10 x 11 11 x x

**AlexMalmis** · 03-05-2019, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Cool. Yes.

The second 11 is a third, but because it's an octave higher than a normal third we call it a 10th.

(10ths are actually amazingly useful on guitar, you can imply a lot of harmony with just that interval.)

So, this a major 10th

10 x x 11 x x

Why don't we just use the notes in the same order as before? I'll come to that.

For now, yes.

So, next question, can you tab out dominant 7th, minor 7/minor7b5 using this new shape:

10 x 11 11 x x

Dominant 7th is 10 x 11 10 x x
minor 7/minor7b5 is 10 x 10 10 x x

**christianm77** · 03-05-2019, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by AlexMalmis

Dominant 7th is 10 x 11 10 x x
minor 7/minor7b5 is 10 x 10 10 x x

Perfect, OK the next step is to start applying this to some chord symbols... For instance, if we have

Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 (the infamous II-V-I - more on that later)

So, we can tab out the two possible voicings of each chord.