b7 over a major chord, which scale?

[znerken]

So, what scale is the guitarist thinking of when playing a b7 over the tonic major chord?

[mr. beaumont]

I think that's "Mixeduplydian."

Joking aside...b7, used in passing, can be kind of a blues sound on a major chord...there's no indication how fast this is going by...

Looks like an enclosure of the root note...I don't have an instrument here with me right now, so I can only sort of "imagine" the whole line...where's this from? What's the chord before? After? Context kinda matters too...

[znerken]

I think that's "Mixeduplydian."

Joking aside...b7, used in passing, can be kind of a blues sound on a major chord...there's no indication how fast this is going by...

Looks like an enclosure of the root note...I don't have an instrument here with me right now, so I can only sort of "imagine" the whole line...where's this from? What's the chord before? After? Context kinda matters too...

It's from a solo over the II-V-I of Bye Bye Blackbird. So it's a passing note giving it a bluesy feel, but there is no blues scale with a b7, right?

[mr. beaumont]

It's from a solo over the II-V-I of Bye Bye Blackbird. So it's a passing note giving it a bluesy feel, but there is no blues scale with a b7, right?

Well, the "blues" scale certainly has it. I'm not sure this is best analyzed with a scale though...but if you must, from the other notes, you could say "mixolydian over major."

Also, is that G a Gb? you have it labelled b2.

[znerken]

Well, the "blues" scale certainly has it. I'm not sure this is best analyzed with a scale though...but if you must, from the other notes, you could say "mixolydian over major."

Which blues scale has a b7? Besides a mixolydian blues scale of course.

[mr. beaumont]

The blues scale-- minor pentatonic plus a b5.

The other notes are clearly not coming from there in your example, though.

[znerken]

The blues scale-- minor pentatonic plus a b5.

The other notes are clearly not coming from there in your example, though.

so relative minor pentatonic blues scale is D, and the 5th of a D is A, and a b5 is Ab, so how? Sorry if I am slow.

[mr. beaumont]

No, no worries...but there's no need to think relative minor...people force the blues over a major chord all the time. In that case, I'd add one more note--the maj3 as well...so you have both 3rds. Slipping from the m3 to M3 is a quintessential blues sound...you just don't want to HANG on m3 over a chord with M3...but it works, So F blues over F major.

But like I said, that's not what's happening here...

[christianm77]

Yeah you get b7s on major chords all the time

In the olden days I major chord most often a maj6 so 7th could be flat or major

But bop players mix it up. See also blues chords, not always dom7.

Play the blues on any standard. Play vanilla on the blues.

[znerken]

No, no worries...but there's no need to think relative minor...people force the blues over a major chord all the time. In that case, I'd add one more note--the maj3 as well...so you have both 3rds. Slipping from the m3 to M3 is a quintessential blues sound...you just don't want to HANG on m3 over a chord with M3...but it works, So F blues over F major.

But like I said, that's not what's happening here...

I think I see where I was mistaken..

The F major blues scale is:
1-b3-4-b5-5-b7

while the F major pentatonic blues scale is :
1, 2, b3,3, 5, and 6



That's why I was missing the 7b.. My mistake.

[mr. beaumont]

I think the whole "blues" scale thing is confusing, because people don't always mean the same thing when they say it...

I think major pentatonic, minor pentatonic, and then add notes from there...

My "go to" set of notes that comprise "my personal blues scale" would be--

1, 2, b3, 3, 4, b5, 5, 6 and b7... that's 9 notes out of 12

[FwLineberry]

Also, is that G a Gb? you have it labelled b2.

That's 7b not b2.

[christianm77]

I think I see where I was mistaken..

The F major blues scale is:
1-b3-4-b5-5-b7

F minor blues

while the F major pentatonic blues scale is :
1, 2, b3,3, 5, and 6

F major blues

[FwLineberry]

So, what scale is the guitarist thinking of when playing a b7 over the tonic major chord?

I wonder if in this case they were just thinking "target the root from a step below and a step above".

[christianm77]

I wonder if in this case they were just thinking "target the root from a step below and a step above".

I doubt it. Possible I guess.

[christianm77]

I would like to know more context on this line though - what player, what tune?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Could we be overthinking this line? I'm happy if I end up on the note I targeted.

[Drumbler]

Dyxlexic Bebop Major

[znerken]

F minor blues



F major blues

Not correct according to this:

Blues Scales - The Major and Minor Blues Scale

[christianm77]

Not correct according to this:

Blues Scales - The Major and Minor Blues Scale

Yes it is.

[znerken]

Yes it is.

basicmusictheory.com: F blues scale


So this is a f minor blues scale, based on f major?

[christianm77]

basicmusictheory.com: F blues scale


So this is a f minor blues scale, based on f major?

The F blues scale usually refers to the minor blues scale and can be played on major, minor, dominant, whatever. Minor blues scale on major is like lesson #1 of playing blues guitar, right?

Don't think it has anything to do with the line you quoted BTW

EDIT: sorry that sounded a little terse. I appreciate you are trying to work stuff out and put it together, but I think it's good to look into simple stuff first. Learning to apply the major and minor blues scales certainly features pretty high on my list of basic improvisation skills, alongside chord tone improv. Bebop and modal playing etc can wait...

[znerken]

The F blues scale usually refers to the minor blues scale and can be played on major, minor, dominant, whatever. Minor blues scale on major is like lesson #1 of playing blues guitar, right?

Don't think it has anything to do with the line you quoted BTW.

Ah, sorry my mistake.

This is the tab for the solo, and he actually writes that he utilities the F blues scale:

(Google translate the article referenced in the video)

[christianm77]

Yeah sounds like a pretty boppy player. I would say the use of a b7 on an F major type chord is not unusual, and it can come from blues scale or mixolydian.

[znerken]

Yeah sounds like a pretty boppy player. I would say the use of a b7 on an F major type chord is not unusual, and it can come from blues scale or mixolydian.

This is probably the biggest newbie question, but is utilizing the blues scale frequently considered very “bebopy”?

On another note, how did you like the solo? I found it very cool!