Super Locrian (7th Mode Of Melodic Minor)

[jasaco]

C is the third mode of A Mel minor .The seventh degree is G#7 alt

No offense, but in a discussion like this, I think it's very important to use correct and consistent terminology, otherwise people tend to get confused. Not to beat up on HB, but "C" is not a mode. "C Lydian Augmented" is a mode (as you point out below). Also, the seventh "degree" of A Mel Minor is not "G#7 alt". "G#7 alt" is a set of chords. "G#" (the pitch) is the seventh degree.

[JonR]

Hi JonR!I seached my notes about that.
It was a seminar given a few years ago by a Dutch jazz lecturer.
Naturally,I find full of notes,but not this particulary one !
the principle behind is quite simple:

Eb Lydian augmented in the 3th mode of Cmel min scale.
If you place in the same bar just before the VIIth degree,B7 alt, you'll give a " modal"perspective to your Imaj7#11#5 chord
cheers
HB

Hold on, you were talking about G7alt resolving to a Bmaj7 tonic.
Now you've changed the chords and I'm not sure what you're saying. (Your English is not working very well.)

I do see the relationship of B to Eb is the same as G to B; we're talking about a root move up a major 3rd - yes?

But you're regarding a maj7#11#5 as a chord you can resolve to? Was the Bmaj7 in your original example actually a Bmaj7#11#5? That does rather move the goal posts (to use an English expression...)
There's no way I can see a maj7#11#5 as a "I" chord, in any meaningful sense.

But just to clarify - in your new example, you're saying B7alt (expressed as Eb lydian augmented, yes?) resolves to... what? Ebmaj7? Gmaj7? Cmaj7??

[mangotango]

Hold on, you were talking about G7alt resolving to a Bmaj7 tonic.
Now you've changed the chords and I'm not sure what you're saying. (Your English is not working very well.)

Peut-etre, si vous avez des difficultes avec ses paroles en Anglais, pour aider Hippolyte, il serait preferable continuer en Francais?

Exactement.





And yes I know my French is shaky, but it's not my first language, AND THAT'S THE POINT.

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

Hold on, you were talking about G7alt resolving to a Bmaj7 tonic.
Now you've changed the chords and I'm not sure what you're saying. (Your English is not working very well.)

I do see the relationship of B to Eb is the same as G to B; we're talking about a root move up a major 3rd - yes?

But you're regarding a maj7#11#5 as a chord you can resolve to? Was the Bmaj7 in your original example actually a Bmaj7#11#5? That does rather move the goal posts (to use an English expression...)
There's no way I can see a maj7#11#5 as a "I" chord, in any meaningful sense.

But just to clarify - in your new example, you're saying B7alt (expressed as Eb lydian augmented, yes?) resolves to... what? Ebmaj7? Gmaj7? Cmaj7??

I do apologize for my broken English,it's not my mothers tale.
I do apologize to have lost the sheet we received at this clinic with the Bill Evans impro on a standard,showing this particular harmonic progression.

For what I understood:
When beginning a bar with a I major chord, Bill Evans did from time to time the following thing:
just before the I major,he placed in the same bar an altered mode

-B7altered Ebmajor7
-C7altered E major7
-C#7 altered Fmajor7
-D7altered Gb major7
-D#7 altered G major7
E7 altered Ab major7
-F7 altered Amajor7
-F# altered Bb major7
-G7 altered Bmajor7
G#7 altered C major7
-A7 altered C#major7
-A#7 altered Dmajor7

The I maj7was considered by him,for a while , as the IIIth mode of a melodic minor scale,and he "enhanced" this chord by the seventh mode of this scale.

Ok ,Mister the professor ?

[eh6794]

But the third mode of melodic minor isnt a major 7th. Im trying to figure this out

[Vladan]

Is this a déjà vu, or what? Couple of posts above you asked the same question and he explained.

[eh6794]

Yes, and he wrote the exact same thing. C major is not the third mode of MM

[Hyppolyte Bergamotte]

But the third mode of melodic minor isnt a major 7th. Im trying to figure this out

Yes,it is : a major7 with a raised 11 and 5

It's a Lydian augmented: Lydian,because the #11 and augmented because the #5
Let's take the C melodic minor scale

Cjazz minor
D Phrygian13
Eb Lydian augmented
F Lydian dominant
G mixolydian b6
A Locrian 9
B7 altered

You are not obliged to play all the notes of the Lydian augmented,,as you must already play(if you would play that like Bill Evands did sometimes) in the same bar a V7 altered : / B7alt Ebmaj7#11#5./

Play in the same bar,ie,a B7alt and then a Eb major triad or a Eb augmented triad: Eb+

Or you could play only in this bar a Ebmaj7#5 arpeggio:
on B7 alt you have within this arpeggio the Tonic,T,3, #9,#5 of B7 alt and the T, 3, 5+ and 7 of Ebmaj7#11#5