Reg's Thread... live at the speed of Jazz

**Reg** · 11-07-2012, 10:39 AM

Though I would try and get back to playing Jazz... at least how one can approach playing Jazz.

There appears to be a few approaches...

What's your goal, where you want to get. Do you simply want to be able to play some jazz tunes. Cover some of the old standards etc.. There are some great tunes, lots of fun.
Or do you want to learn how to play in a jazz style... be able to play any tune in a jazz style.

There is a big difference between playing jazz tunes and being a jazz player...

How you structure your learning process will reflect your choice. Learning to play jazz tunes generally won't make you a jazz player... maybe if your really talented and put in way too much time...

Years ago you could get away with learning the tunes... sort of. Doesn't work anymore. To many tunes... to many different harmonic choices, concepts and applications. No one has the time...

So my first recommendation... get your reading skills together. Being able to read you will mechanically and almost through an osmosis process... become aware of structural elements of what defines jazz.

You'll become aware of Form, all aspects of Form, not just spatial aspects... the actual physical time...but how almost all of the technical playing skills you develop, all your theoretical concepts and applications of those concepts... all work within Form.

Once you begin to hear and then understand Form... you will be able to begin the process of what to put into those Forms.

As with most teachers... you need to get your playing skills together. There are different methods... they're all just a method to get to that point where your playing skills, (or lack of those playing skills), won't get in the way of...1) playing what you hear or 2) playing what you want to play, developing or using a concept.

Playing jazz is not simply playing what you hear or think you hear. You need to be ahead of what your actually playing.
Example... Your playing, soloing or comping through"Autumn Leaves", someone uses a reharm. a different Chord Pattern, any type of playing that implies something. You need to be aware and already have that concept or application ready to plug and play next time through... you need to be able to anticipate where you or the other members of the ensemble might go. If your in the moment... your late.

Part of being able to anticipate is being aware of Form... both spatially and harmonically, melodically, rhythmically etc...

So I think I'll post some standards, maybe some newer standards and try and play through with examples of what are possible jazz concepts etc... I'll make efforts to speak clearly... and slowly....

Reg

**jazzuki** · 11-07-2012, 01:53 PM

Hi Reg!Great article.At last you have written something I can understand, and I agree with all your comments and views.So am looking forward

**jazzuki** · 11-07-2012, 01:55 PM

Reg.Sorry hit wrong key=looking forward to see what you will come up with.

**Vladan** · 11-25-2012, 08:16 PM

Reg, i've just discovered this thread and your youtube channel.
While it's all too advanced, and going too fast for me to follow and understand at ease, I think ther's lots in common to my general idea of playing, more less, improvised music.
I'll keep reading this thread and watch your channel.

**Bigmagic** · 12-04-2012, 12:45 PM

Great stuff Reg, to be able to make all those subs on the fly seems incredible. You are virtually rewriting the tune on the fly. Using chord progressions in place of chords and forcing melodic minor. Seems a lot to comprehend but I am trying.

I think it would help if you played a Standard with the written changes and then with a couple choruses of your alterations and explained how you got to them. I arrived naturally at your fingering concept long ago. I wish the rest of it came as easy. Carry on and thanks.

**ColinO** · 12-04-2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

I posted this in the comping section... nothing special or detailed but might be useful.

Here's a quick Video of one of many applications of approaching comping... in a jazz style. The concept would include use of,
1) organized use of "Form of", the actual space. call answer or strong weak pattern for reference. Organize how you use subs or any other source of adding or changing chords.
2) organized use of Subs.
3) use of typical jazz "Chord Patterns", changes from typical jazz tunes. I VI II V, I bIII II bII, II V's ...basically any chord progression from any tune and can be used as...one chord. Don't get hung up on making sure all the notes plug and play according to basic theory... most Chord patterns are used and heard somewhat like Pedals... their a constant with something over the top... the melody or improve. And you can generally alter the progression to fit situation through any number of harmonic jazz practices.

Anyway check it out... and try coming up with your own use of the concept and applications of.... that's somewhat the point... being able to play in a jazz style with out memorizing, for example what ever I post as possibilities.

Reg

I keep watching this and every time I hear something new. Thank you very much for your efforts here. I hope you keep them coming.

**pingu** · 12-04-2012, 02:51 PM

'if you're in the moment , you're late'
Absolutely priceless Reg

You are indeed a diamond geezer !

**Vladan** · 12-04-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

Every note I play represents a complete harmonic structure... On that Gmaj7... if I play 8th note line... starting on 2nd string 7th fret... F#, G, 1st String, 7th fret... B. 2nd string... 8th fret...G, F#

F# G B G F#. Harmony or what each note implies harmonically could be, F#ma9, Gmaj9, B-7, F9, E-9 all for that original Gmaj7 chord... with those notes as lead line...

X 10 7 7 7 X
X 11 8 8 8 X
7 X 7 7 7 7
X 8 7 8 8 X
X 7 5 7 7 X

I'm just starting, and want to get it straight, so let me ask, is above a typo?
I mean, isn't
X 10 7 7 7 X = GM9
X 11 8 8 8 X = half step above GM9?

I don't want to nit pick, it would not be the first time I've got something totaly wrong.

Also, If I'm correct that there was a typo, are fingerings wrong, or chord names in preceeding sentence?

**sutra** · 12-08-2012, 07:38 PM

Just a little slower for us old folks ha ha. Im not sure I understand Modal Interchange exactly. Also kind of lost on access to VI-7 and iii-7 what do you mean by access? I been playing for almost 50 years and really not that ignorant. Just a little slow out of the gate. I can hear it when you play it. Also when you take off up the neck doing that stutering type thang I cant explain, could you shed some light here bro. Thank you soooooo much. Great Chops my friend! Timing is impecable!

**Reg** · 12-08-2012, 09:41 PM

Hey cool... interest...
I need to leave in just a few moments for gig... but I'll post some examples sun. am. I'll take standard and develop some harmonic directions for playing.

Thanks pingu

Vladan... thanks... yes, Chord names...Gmaj9, Abmaj9, B-7, F9, E-9. Not first or last mistake I'll make. Is that from this thread, I'll have to fix that, again thanks.

sutra... thanks, I'll pull up some of my posts on modal interchange and make a new video of possible applications.

VI-7 implies the chord doesn't have typical classical, maj/min tonal implications... as compared to vi-7, which reflects a standard analysis.

What I usually mean by access is what the beginning tonal reference is...where one could start developing relationships., Different beginning can lead to different results... by means of using harmonic applications of concepts.

Not quite sure of which lick etc... melodic or chordal... I'll gladly shed what ever I can...

Thanks Reg

**sutra** · 12-09-2012, 02:51 AM

It will be greatly appreciated! I can hear in your playing there are concepts that will help alot. So happy to have found this and your youtube stuff. Put a new spin on everything. Your comping is way too cool. Just what I have been looking for. I studied a little with Joe Pass when he was alive and others. Recent Year or two Andreas Oberg so Im not really easily impressed but you got the stuff happening bro, as good as any I have heard. Thank You!

Robert Lee

**Bigmagic** · 12-09-2012, 03:39 AM

Here's my suggestion "Autumn Leaves" I have heard "Autumn Leaves" played so many different ways for such a simple tune. Reg already has a video on it and there is a thread on it but it's worth a review. Newbies and Intermediate players would probably get a lot out of it. Advanced players.......heck with them lol.

Here's a link to the "Autumn Leaves" thread with Reg's comments and video. Autumn Leaves - modal analysis please

(I thought of myself as an advanced player until I got serious about Jazz)

**Reg** · 12-10-2012, 12:14 PM

Thought I would post some previous vids to help get things going, (plus I'm lazy).
Here's that Modal version of Autumn Leaves,
\

Then here is Alone Together... with an example how I might approach.
I could use one aspect of Modal Interchange... interchanging to Melodic minor. I could drop a Melodic Minor Template over the entire tune. The concept is every Minor chord could become pulled from Melodic Minor. That is the first step. my basic reference to create relationships and develop.

One simple relationship could be simple use of related V7 chord, or adding related II-7 chord to any V7 chord. I can pull from MM for either, both or take it one more level... create another relationship... introduce V7altered chords from V7 chords that could become V7#11 chords from original MM modal interchange. Anyway check it out...

To go with the Modal interchange use and creating a reference and then introducing relationships... here's a short video of one method of accessing Alter tonal area...

Check the vids out and maybe something will click and we can go from there...
Reg

**djangoles** · 12-10-2012, 03:38 PM

Great Stuff as always!!! When is the album coming out?

**sutra** · 12-10-2012, 07:09 PM

Thanks Reg for the video attemp, but cannot acces link here through my ipad. Is the any way you could just send me a link address so i can view these, wonder why they are not on your regugalr youtube page? Anyway thanks for your help!

**Vladan** · 12-10-2012, 07:21 PM

They are there on his youtube channel. Click browse videos.

**sutra** · 12-10-2012, 07:24 PM

I see Alone together and Autumn Leaves on youtube channel. ha ha And things starting to click. Just a little foggy seeing exactley whats happening as far as laying template over these changes. Once I get a grip on new way of looking at this I will be hell on wheels. ha ha I just keep watching,listening to vids over and over. The other thing was at times you seem to take a 3 or for note rhythmic motiff and move it up in either half steps or whatever up the neck and wondering if you do this over turnaround or what. You probably dont even notice but its a cool sound. Wish I could nail this. Thanks Robert
lee

**sutra** · 12-10-2012, 09:59 PM

Reg, just out of curiousity what would you call the chord after Gmi7 you are playing on All Blues. I would use that as the I Chord in Blues in C. Never seen used this way but sounds great! Robert Lee

**sutra** · 12-10-2012, 10:09 PM

So as I try sorting this stuff out looks like say going to Gmi you would sometimes go Dmi6 to G7#11 to Gmi is that correct? Sorry for so many post but as I go want to make sure Im on right track.

**jster** · 12-11-2012, 05:14 PM

Reg,
I'm looking at the Alone Together video for the second time. You say at 1:23 that you are going to replace all the minor chords with melodic minor but play off the V of those chords. But then at 1:42 you say that it's going to be the fourth degree of melodic minor, lyd b7. Did you mean to say that you are going to play off the IV of those minor chords? The V makes some intuitive sense to me because V goes to i. But I also know that mix b6 isn't that popular a mode for whatever reason. So I'm a bit confused. Can you clear that up?
Thanks

**Bigmagic** · 12-11-2012, 07:31 PM

Reg question, when you are doing this on the fly is the Bass player aware of your options are is he reacting to your changes? I assume he probably knows your likely subs.

**gersdal** · 12-12-2012, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bigmagic

Reg question, when you are doing this on the fly is the Bass player aware of your options are is he reacting to your changes? I assume he probably knows your likely subs.

My definition of the difference between subs and reharmonizations:
Substitutions are things you can change wrt to the chords and not tell the rest of the rest of the band
Reharmonizations are when you need to tell the the rest of the band

Not sure this is a good rule, but generally it works. Hence, when I do subs I don't need to tell the bass player.

Comments?

**Reg** · 12-12-2012, 11:20 AM

Hey Robert...
Do you mean the G chord, G13... the next chord is just a inversion. Can be called a B-7b5 in it's own context.

If you take a collection of notes... a scale and build chords in 3rds...
Long story short... that collection of notes laid out in 3rds,

G B D F A C E G B etc.. starting on
G B D F... G7
B D F A... B-7b5
D F A C... D-7
F A C E... Fmaj7
A C E G... A-7
C E G B... Cmaj7
E G B D... E-7

So when I comp... I have access to all those diatonic chords built on that G mixolydian scale built in 3rds. The tricky part is how I use them.

I use lots of concepts... to organize how I would have access to all those chords. Another aspect ... is I usually use many concepts together... I could add blue notes to the G mixo. Just adding the b3 or Bb, changes all those diatomic chords.

I like having choices to how I approach playing changes as well as when I solo... So instead of having one chord... I have the option of many chord patterns. The chord pattern would reflect what concept or where the chords are from.

Same thing with soloing... I can take a simple melodic line from G7 chord tones or from Mixolydian and drop different harmonic templates on top that collection of notes to give me more organized choices to create relationships... develop my solo.

If you give me specific time locations on Video, I'll check it out and explain what I was playing and from where.

Hey jster...

When I say V chord, I believe I meant the V of a II V.... so If original chord was G-7 and I Modal Interchange to G-maj7 or 1st degree of G MM... I would play off C7#11, the related V of G- C7 or II V

I could play off, in this example D7b13 or V chord of G-, but that would be a different relationship... I V as compared to II V ... the tricky part is their the same collection of notes. Basically once you start accessing MM... there are no avoid notes or chords. But how you use... affect the other harmonic concepts being used. And which notes become the functional or target notes.

Example could be on II V or G- C7... I could create and use all the standard II V type of relations... as compared to the V I collection.

Hey big magic... as Gersdal said... subs still imply same tonal target... reharms change that tonal center.

Tunes have pretty standard tonal implications... which imply the basic reference for me to develop relationship or add chords, chord patterns etc...

The other very important point is all tunes have a Harmonic rhythm... A rhythmic pattern of harmonic targets... when I play, I generally don't conflict with that harmonic rhythm. I try and reinforce that harmonic rhythm. There is the big picture or the complete tune... the big analysis and then there are the small tonal areas. Every tonal area... every chord can become a tonal center in it's self...

When you approach each chord as a tonal center... you still need to be aware of the big analysis and organize or have a system of organization in place to keep the basic harmonic rhythm in tact.

This becomes simpler when you develop standard chord patterns that fit typical progressions and melodies. You develop standard harmonic areas to pull from when comping and soloing.

Most bass players have no problem. I fit into the situation...

Reg

**jster** · 12-12-2012, 03:06 PM

Hey Reg,
OK, I've been mulling it for the last couple of hours. Where did the ii come from? You do modal interchange to switch from the tonic minor to tonic melodic minor. But then you decide to regard that tonic melodic minor chord as ii chord. What motivated that? And how is it really a ii chord given that it is still a minmaj7? You get lydian b7, but the main thing I know about that is that it relates to the tritone sub and resolves down a half-step. How is lyb b7 really a mode for a V chord? So I don't understand why it is ii-V and not a i-VI. The ii looks like a i because of the majmin7 and the V looks like a IV because of the lyd b7. And making it a ii, doesn't that imply some new i? And what about the old V? (I'm using just Roman numerals because you changed the key in your last comments.)
Thanks

**Reg** · 12-12-2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by jster

Hey Reg,
OK, I've been mulling it for the last couple of hours. So I understand everything you just wrote. Except, where did the ii come from? You do modal interchange to switch from the tonic minor to tonic melodic minor. But then you decide to regard that tonic melodic minor chord as ii chord. What motivated that? And how is it really a ii chord given that it is still a minmaj7? You get lydian b7, but the main thing I know about that is that it relates to the tritone sub and resolves down a half-step.
Thanks

Hey jster...

Yes I could call I-maj7 IV7#11 of MM... but that would be different reference... a different starting point from which to create relationships... My relationship is using any Min. or Dom. chord to either be the II or the V of a II V... I'm dropping a II V template over any Min. or Dom chord and creating II Vs... That is the concept and organizing system... the starting point or reference. I believe in the example, the 1st reference was dropping Melodic Min. over any Min chord. That could be basic or first reference and the the II V's could be the next relationship for development.

The point I'm trying to get to is you create organized methods of development... The II V relationship is different when applied in relationship to natural Min. as compared to MM.

Many of the same harmonic areas become accessible but there would be different steps of development from relationships. This may seems
like a waste of time and more complicated than needs to be... but one you educate your ears... what may sound natural and " correct notes" may change.

In the end most of these concepts become internalized and second nature... I don't think my way through these steps of creating relationship... I already know and hear them. But I can verbally explain step by step, and when I sight read through tunes, I mentally actually go through these steps sometimes, at least I make choices where I might want to go. I know where they end. at least where they can go harmonically. Again it takes a second or two... I'm always much more ahead of what I'm than that. I'm usually bars ahead.