The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Posts 1 to 25 of 61
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Does anyone here tune down his guitar to Eb or regularly employ another alternate tuning?

    With so many jazz songs either done in C, or in more horn-oriented keys like Bb, F, and Eb, it seems like it might be easiest to just tune down a half step to Eb. The key of C major would become less familiar sure, but Cm would be played as C#m, which is the same as good ol' E major, key-wise.

    Anyway, I can guess the answer is "No" - that almost everyone plays in standard tuning and that while I can do whatever I want, I should probably just get used to playing in Eb or whatever. The thought keeps occurring to me though, and I'm just wondering if anyone here regularly plays like that.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    I've done it for many years. I like what it does to my vibrato and bends.
    Hendrix did it.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    I have played standards in the usual keys for a long time, and now,

    since I almost never play with anyone except a bass player, I just decided to play most tunes in guitar friendly keys, G, C, A E, etc.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Not me.

    I actually like that my open strings become some pretty hip stuff when I play in Bb, F, etc...

    Ted Greene would often tune down a half step or more, but it was because he liked the way the guitar sounded that way, not to facilitate the ease of playing in any certain key.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    I used to when I played blues to try to get that Stevie Ray Vaughan sound, but not anymore.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Louis Stewart recorded his "Louis the First" album, tuned down a half step

  8. #7
    Okay, so it is done by some, certainly on occasion.

    I'll probably just stick with standard tuning. Just seeing all those Eb's and F's and such drives me nuts, but i guess I'll get used to it...

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    Mick Goodrick does, the tuned down thng. Combined with the really light strings, it's like there are no strings at all.
    David

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    I have my guitar tuned to the Pentatonic scale. My left arm isn't much good these days, & this tuning allows me to play melody. I use a capo to play in different keys. I only have one octave at a time but I can play some nice jazz.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    I learned mandolin before guitar, so I play guitar tuned in fifths from the C below the guitar's low E (C-G-D-A-E-B).

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    That's an interesting tuning. So do you play a single note at a time?
    Or do you play chords, perhaps spreading them out arpeggio style? How does it sound?

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by dmt
    Okay, so it is done by some, certainly on occasion.

    I'll probably just stick with standard tuning. Just seeing all those Eb's and F's and such drives me nuts, but i guess I'll get used to it...

    So what's the problem with Eb and F?

    I have to tune down a half to play with my partner, whose piano is flat by *about* a half step. I can get sorta close.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    "Umm, fish?" That's an interesting tuning. So do you play a single note at a time?
    Or do you play chords, perhaps spreading them out arpeggio style? How does it sound?
    I do both. I tend to mostly use three or four note chords when comping that can then be moved onto any four strings as necessary. The second inversion major 7th is really spread out, so I can only hit that if I'm up the neck a bit. (I play on a short-scale neck, though.) Otherwise, the chords come straight over from mandolin without an issue.

    The chords themselves are pretty spread out, sound-wise. The root-in-bass inversion (I can never keep the names of the inversions straight so I just think of them by what note's in the bass) would be root, 5th, 3rd, 7th (0-0-2-2-x-x for Cmaj7, 0-0-1-1-x-x for Cmin7, 0-0-2-1-x-x for C7 [although that dom voicing is pretty cheesy]). I like the sound of them. Lots of room in there. Almost like an Aaron Copland piece or something. (Check out the opening to Billy the Kid:
    )

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    I play primarily in standard tuning but I like tuning down anywhere from a semi-tone to a minor third. It has nothing to do with changing the key. I just like the sound. As for guitar-friendly keys, I prefer keys that layout well from the second or third up to to the eight fret, so Bb, F, and Eb all work pretty well for me.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    In case anyone's interested, it's certainly possible to play jazz on a mandolin (even chord melody ):


    That's certainly not me, by the way. I switched over to six string mainly because I needed more of a low end. The lack of low notes started bugging me.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    I bought a start that I had set up specifically for half-step tuning. It was because I made a pact with myself to dive into Hendrix's playing like a kid into the deep end of the pool. That was in December of 2010.

    Since then, it's the only thing I use it for. I have taken the guitar to blues jams but then I think a half step up for every song and was kind of scayreewd when it came to play in E. Half step down tuning plus those standard light gauges they put on strats makes the guitar almost too easy to bend.

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    and for my finale on alternate tunings.. I will open another can of worms.

    New Standard Tuning

    anyone used it?

    Among alternative tunings for the guitar, New Standard Tuning (NST) is a regular tuning that approximates all-fifths tuning. With its strings are assigned the notes C-G-D-A-E-G (from lowest to highest), NST's successive open strings have the perfect-fifth intervals {(C,G),(G,D),(D,A),(AE)}; the interval (E,G) is a minor third. On a guitar, the highest B of all-fifths tuning was impractical until recently. The NST has provided a good approximation to all-fifths tuning since the 1980s. Like other regular tunings, NST allows chord-fingerings to be shifted amid its regularly tuned strings. All-fifths tuning is used also for other stringed instruments, such as mandolins, cellos, violas, and violins.
    NST's C-G range is wider, both lower and higher, than the E-E range of standard tuning in which the strings are tuned to the open notes E-A-D-G-B-E. The greater range allows NST-guitars to play pieces like The Moonlight Sonata.
    NST was introduced by Robert Fripp, a guitarist for King Crimson. Fripp taught the new standard tuning in Guitar-Craft courses beginning in 1985, and thousands of Guitar Craft students continue to use the tuning. Like other alternative tunings for guitar, the NST has provided challenges and new opportunities to guitarists, who have developed music especially suited to NST. Indeed, many NST guitarists have become professional musicians and recording artists.
    The NST has required greater attention to strings than has standard tuning. String sets for standard tuning have problems being adapted for the New Standard Tuning: With standard string-sets, the lowest string is too loose and the highest string too often snaps under the increased tension. Special sets of NST strings have been available for decades, and of course some guitarists have assembled NST sets from individual strings.

    New standard tuning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Some Internet Quotes

    "Arpeggios in themselves are so elegantly laid-out in fifths tuning, you might feel like you're cheating. For example, a Cma7 arpeggio (root 3 5 7) might be fingered as a simple box 5-9 (fifth string) 5-9 (fourth string). A Cm7 arpeggio (root b3 5 b7) might be 5-8 (fifth string) 5-8 (fourth string). A C7(b5) might be 5-9 (fifth string) 4-8.
    But the best thing is, everything you find on any pair of string can be played on the next pair, two frets over.? So, there are no surprises."

    "The advantages of fifths tuning (and therefore, NST) are best realized when improvising, I think, especially over changes. This is because the tuning is consistently the circle of fifths. ? By the same token, a consistent fourths tuning would yield a lot of benefits? in this area, but the symmetry gets a little obscured traversing over three strings rather than two."

    "Mainly, look at the mandolin family lore for how it works... For example, mandocello is the lower 4 strings of NST.? Cittern is the lower 5 strings. Octave Mandolin is strings 5, 4, 3, and? 2 of NST.

    This article may give you some idea of how the tuning works for you:
    jazzmando.com/tips/archives/001408.shtml "Fifths, Symmetry and You: Perceptual Economy"

    "I think you'll be surprise about the chords! Of course the voicings are different, but they are actually simpler... at least by? my way of thinking. I might be so bold as to point you to jazzcittern (dot) com/modeexplorerweb/home/lesso
    *ns/mandolin/chords.aspx to get some ideas? Though this is a mandolin method, the same applies to 86% of NST."

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    as they say in the computer world.... Standards are great there are so many to select from.
    Last edited by docbop; 05-28-2013 at 06:16 PM.

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    The wider tuning will expand your range in one position but it takes 7 frets to complete a chromatic scale as compared to 5 frets for standard guitar and 4ths tuning and 4 frets for major 3rd tuning.
    A perfect 5th tuning would offer some cool unique (to guitar anyway) resonance chords but will involve more shifting and stretching to play standard things.

    Draw some diagrams of each to compare for yourself.

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    I play CGDA tuning on my cello banjo (a what?) and it is a great tuning for some things. Bach cello suites fit like a glove. Permit me a little indulgence:


  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    More difficult to play major 2nds and minor 2nd's within chords tho isn't it ?

    I love those 'rubs'

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    The California Guitar Trio showcase the sound of NST:


  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Did not Carl Kress use this tuning, or something close to it?

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Did not Carl Kress use this tuning, or something close to it?
    Carl Kress used the all-fifths tuning
    • Bb-F-C-G-D-A

    according to The Guitar in Jazz, which commented that Kress's tuning facilitated "full, lush chords and bass lines"; Kress's "instantly recognizable sound" helped to establish him as a "leading sideman", enabling him to "rake in the bucks" and buy cars. (!)

    A tasteful performance of Kress's "After Thoughts [Afterthoughts ?]" (suggested by the mind-readers at YouTube)

    was uploaded by Rob MacKillop!


    Given splendid guitarists like Carl Kress and Robert Fripp (and his students), perhaps randalljazz should withdraw or rephrase his previous statements?