How to Choose Which Blues Scale to Play?

[ozone]

When you play the blues scale, do you use the root of the dom7th chord to choose the scale or do you use another method. In the Jazz Theory Book it gives a guildline to use the E Blues (shortcut being a m3rd below the pentatonic, G). I haven't used it in that context. How do you choose which blues scale to play?

[M-ster]

A starting point is to use the blues scale that's common to the overall key center. If you're essentially in C, and you're going to interject a blues riff, it would typically be C blues.

You could get crazier, but I think you're asking for the initial, basic approach.

[mr. beaumont]

There's a few ways to think about that--the best of course, is to sit down with a pen and paper and see what notes the blues scale gives you in relationship to dominants (and other chords) with different roots.

A couple of common applications I think of right away are using a blues scale of the same root over an altered dominant, and using the "I" minor pent (or blues scale) over a IV.

I'm assuming in your OP you're talking about using the E blues scale over aGmajor/G dominant sound? E minor pentatonic is the same as G major pentatonic, and the blu note, the b5, is a b3 or #9 over a "g" root chord...that's what you're getting there...

[MarkRhodes]

If you're playing a blues in Bb (and you're using a Dominant for the I chord, which is common), the Bb blues scale is fine for the whole form, though you can mix it with other things.

[ozone]

Thanks guys for the responses. Just trying to great my head to talk to my hands.
@ Mr. Beaumont - Just to test my understanding
The progression C7 - F7 - Galt
The scales C blues - C blues - G blues.
Of couse you can use C, F or G blues for the whole thing too, right.

[wolflen]

Thanks guys for the responses. Just trying to great my head to talk to my hands.
@ Mr. Beaumont - Just to test my understanding
The progression C7 - F7 - Galt
The scales C blues - C blues - G blues.
Of couse you can use C, F or G blues for the whole thing too, right.

try this....C7 Eb7 F#7 A7...use the arps-scales-alts against C7...i think of these groups of four doms as "one chord/scale" .. there are so many variations to this approach..but with practice they do flow into each other and become one extended application...the trick is to make it seamless so you cant hear the changes but playing in & out with ease...experiment

play well

wolf

[ozone]

Thanks Wolfle. That's the dim. arp..
I like using that one also. But I need to practice my phrasing.
My arps don't sound too musical right now.

[M-ster]

... @ Mr. Beaumont - Just to test my understanding
The progression C7 - F7 - Galt
The scales C blues - C blues - G blues.
Of couse you can use C, F or G blues for the whole thing too, right.

No, given your C7 - F7 - Galt ... It's basically blues in C. So, C blues scale throughout. Like I said earlier, and markerhodes seconded ...

[tele jazz]

Thanks guys for the responses. Just trying to great my head to talk to my hands.
@ Mr. Beaumont - Just to test my understanding
The progression C7 - F7 - Galt
The scales C blues - C blues - G blues.
Of couse you can use C, F or G blues for the whole thing too, right.

you could play c blues over all of that

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, the only blues scale I'd use over all three would be the C blues.

Again, write those notes out, see what you get.

[Kman]

The progression C7 - F7 - Galt
The scales C blues - C blues - G blues.
Of couse you can use C, F or G blues for the whole thing too, right.

Think of the key center. Traditional blues players would use C major blues and C minor blues but avoid the C major blues on the F7 chord. That is you basic guidline. You're in the key of C.

[mr. beaumont]

Sometimes I wish there was a standard nomenclature when it comes to the "blues scale."

I learned the blues scale was a minor pentatonic with an added b5. I see folks sometimes call the minor pentatonic the "blues scale."

There was no "major blues scale" when I was coming up. I don't really like that term, because it's referring to the pitch set 1, 2, b3, 3, 5, 6, right? THat flat third is really almost always "play with" not played straight...so over the I, it might be bent up to a "just intonated" third, or quickly slurred into the major third.

Just hanging on the m3 over the I chord in a blues screams "hack!" to me. So in my opinion, it's not really a part of that scale--it's a passing tone.

Blues players (not jazz blues) will usually view the whole thing as minor pentatonic with some other available notes--the important ones being the M3, the sixth, and the ninth.

Just some food for thought...

[ozone]

You guys are awesome. THanks

[M-ster]

Sometimes I wish there was a standard nomenclature when it comes to the "blues scale."

I learned the blues scale was a minor pentatonic with an added b5.

I agree with the last bit of this ... The blues scale features b3, b5, and b7, and it equates to a minor pentatonic with the added flatted 5th.

"Major blues scale" is uninformed, IMHO. And, that's not to slight anyone.

[monk]

As with any style of music, it's very important to listen closely to what people are actully playing. Listening to the 3 Kings, Albert Collins, T-Bone, Johnny Moore, Bill Jennings, Luther Allison, Mike Bloomfield and others will demonstrate that there is much more to blues guitar than the minor pentatonic and blues scale.

The minor pentatonic has been propaganised in Orwellian fashion over the past 40 years as the "end all-be all" of blues guitar playing to such a degree that the majority of people accept it as truth. Beginners read this stuff in guitar magazines or some teacher or friend says "This is all you need" and the myth is perpetuated.

Listening to B.B. King, T-Bone Walker or Albert Collins and hearing 6s, 9s arpeggios and chromatic passing tones should indicate that there is something deeper going on than just minor pentatonic or blues scale. But it seems that most people are learning to play the blues with their eyes rather than their ears.

If more players would actually dig deeper and transcribe blues solos the way they do jazz solos, there would be, in Mr B's words, fewer hacks pounding that flat 3 over the I chord.

Regards,
monk

[Baltar Hornbeek]

Just hanging on the m3 over the I chord in a blues screams "hack!" to me.

Yeah. You're probably right about that for jazz blues, but, for gut-bucket? You can't get there without it!

[mr. beaumont]

See, I don't know. I feel like I hear very little of straight up m3 on the I when I hear the blues masters play...it's almost always played with--hammered on to the M3, bent up slightly to approach that "just intonated" third...

When I hear somebody hang on an "unadorned" m3 over the I chord I think of "blues hammer" right away...

[JonR]

See, I don't know. I feel like I hear very little of straight up m3 on the I when I hear the blues masters play...it's almost always played with--hammered on to the M3, bent up slightly to approach that "just intonated" third...

When I hear somebody hang on an "unadorned" m3 over the I chord I think of "blues hammer" right away...

IMO, that blue 3rd is a mysterious creature. It's in between m3 and M3, but doesn't approximate to any just interval. I hear it as sharp of 6:5 and flat of 5:4.
Of course, blues players (and singers) move it around all the time, not really settling anywhere identifiable - except fairly often on M3 (or maybe a pure 5:4) on the tonic. But to my ears, there is a pitch in there which is just "right", and you know it when you fnd it - it just hits the spot. Somewhere in between 6:5 and 5:4.
Of course, on the IV chord, one would gravitate to m3 (7th of the chord).

[Baltar Hornbeek]

I agree, bend it, slide it, torture it, land on it. Make a bass line out of it. ex: born under a bad sign. What ever it is, it's a low down cryin shame, i say

[gingerjazz]

My old guitar tutor told me to use mixolydian on the one chord and then switch to minor pentatonic on the four chord which is kinda the same thing as mr B is saying avoiding that m3 on the one chord.Using that C blues as an example play C mixolydian over the one chord then C minor pentatonic over the four chord most of the notes in C minor pentatonic are notes from the F mixolydian four chord so it fits well.Does that make sense?

[M-ster]

As with any style of music, it's very important to listen closely to what people are actully playing. Listening to the 3 Kings, Albert Collins, T-Bone, Johnny Moore, Bill Jennings, Luther Allison, Mike Bloomfield and others will demonstrate that there is much more to blues guitar than the minor pentatonic and blues scale ...

I hope your post wasn't in response to me, monk? Because, I totally agree with you. On the other hand, in my prior posts on this thread, I was just trying to simply answer the OP's original question, "How do you choose which blues scale to play?"

I gathered he was coming at it from a basic place and warranted a basic response. Certainly, there's more to it than that; but that wasn't the intent of his question.

[Kman]

Just hanging on the m3 over the I chord in a blues screams "hack!" to me.

For the most part yes, but I disagree somewhat. It works great if used properly leading to the IV chord. That #9 is great dirt.

[monk]

I hope your post wasn't in response to me, monk? Because, I totally agree with you. On the other hand, in my prior posts on this thread, I was just trying to simply answer the OP's original question, "How do you choose which blues scale to play?"

I gathered he was coming at it from a basic place and warranted a basic response. Certainly, there's more to it than that; but that wasn't the intent of his question.

I certainly wasn't pointing a finger at you M-ster nor anyone else who posted. It simply looked like a good place to present some information for beginners to consider once they get the training wheels off.

As I mentioned, I've encountered many players over the years, including some professionals, who never got past the idea that all they needed was a minor pentatonic scale and distortion and they were good to go.

I saw this thread as an opportunity to encourage folks look beyond the pentatonic scale, the blues scale or any scale and not just listen but hear what's happening.

@gingerjazz-What your tutor said and what you're saying makes sense but the whole mixolydian blues thing always sounded a bit bland to me.

I tend to approach blues and jazz in the same manner. I begin with the chords and use them as a point of departure. I arrived at this point when I became frustrated with scales, modes and other things that I'd read, learned or been taught and went back to transcribing recordings.

Regards to all and apologies for any misunderstanding,
monk

[Kman]

I saw this thread as an opportunity to encourage folks look beyond the pentatonic scale, the blues scale or any scale and not just listen but hear what's happening.

The topic is on blues scales and I don't think you want to encourage new folks to look too far beyond. Personally I've tried just about everyhting on blues and I keep coming back to major/minor blues scales and mixolydian. I just think it sounds best. That is just my opinion of course. Maybe you could post an example of what blues your talking about.

[M-ster]

I certainly wasn't pointing a finger at you M-ster nor anyone else who posted. It simply looked like a good place to present some information for beginners to consider once they get the training wheels off.

Not a problem, sir. Just clarifying. Thanks!