The strange Bm6 over G7 (Barry Harris)

[pamosmusic]

I might have been confused by the title of the thread.

how so

[garybaldy]

There are a couple of #7s used in the melody of Crazy Rhythm against Dom7s in the last 8.
Would this example be a different application?

[pamosmusic]

There are a couple of #7s used in the melody of Crazy Rhythm against Dom7s in the last 8.
Would this example be a different application?

Nah that’s just a sideslipping note. You often hear that note harmonized as the flat 7 of a dominant chord that resolves down to the V.

So a B natural over C7 is really a B over Db7

[garybaldy]

Nah that’s just a sideslipping note. You often hear that note harmonized as the flat 7 of a dominant chord that resolves down to the V.

So a B natural over C7 is really a B over Db7

So the answer to my question would be a yeh rather than a nah then!

[pamosmusic]

So the answer to my question would be a yeh rather than a nah then!

well I suppose that’s true!

[rpjazzguitar]

how so

"Bm6 over G7". Sounds like a reference to notes in a solo rather than a sub for a V7 in a ii V I.

So, I'm having trouble understanding how this is more useful than "you can play any note" for soloing purposes.

That said, I get your point about how it could be sub for the V7.

[ragman1]

It's also true, probably, that this is such a theoretical question that, unless one knew of specific instances where a player was constantly using this device, it has very little practical interest.

I mean, one could trawl through all the Coltrane, Bernstein, Scofield, Rosenwinkel, Kreisberg, etc, transcriptions to see if it's being used consistently, and not as just a passing note, but it probably wouldn't be worth it.

I do know of one Coltrane lick (only one) from the Patterns book that had F# over G7 but that was a B major triad, not a minor.

I also seem to remember Christian doing a video in the past talking about this but I could be wrong. Or it was only a part of one that was about something else.

And, of course, we could very easily make our own licks and employ it that way. Personally, I find there's enough mileage in the usual altered notes to keep me happy. Using the maj7 hasn't really a strong enough effect on the music for me to consider cultivating it into my everyday toolbox.

Unless one had quite a lot of fun deliberately making a point of it, loudly and brazenly, in the middle of something. Which, of course, I'm now going to be very tempted to do :-)

[pamosmusic]

"Bm6 over G7". Sounds like a reference to notes in a solo rather than a sub for a V7 in a ii V I.

I think the point Christian was making was that there’s little practical difference for a soloist.

As for Ragman … yeah I can’t think of a specific instance where I’ve seen Bm in place of G. Quite often B major though. A favorite of George Benson and John Coltrane. Pretty frequently a functional sub (see: bar 6 of Like Someone in Love).

I think it’s close to the Tristan Chord though. That’s an Abm6 or F half diminished going to Am. So it’s resolving to minor instead of major.

Id love to hear from any of our BH veterans if they ever ran into Wagner at the workshops.

[Christian Miller]

I think the point Christian was making was that there’s little practical difference for a soloist.

As for Ragman … yeah I can’t think of a specific instance where I’ve seen Bm in place of G. Quite often B major though. A favorite of George Benson and John Coltrane. Pretty frequently a functional sub (see: bar 6 of Like Someone in Love).

I think it’s close to the Tristan Chord though. That’s an Abm6 or F half diminished going to Am. So it’s resolving to minor instead of major.

Id love to hear from any of our BH veterans if they ever ran into Wagner at the workshops.

I'm of the school that that's not an F half dim, it's a French Sixth with a chromatic appoggiatura on the 3rd.

Works well as a minor blues turnaround

As some have pointed out, it's all counterpoint in any case. There's a load of interesting chromatic counterpoint things. The omnibus progressions are fun ones.

No Wagner that I remember at Barry's class. Anyone?

Speaking of an Augmented sixth. What happens when you put an ascending I-IV-I line with a descending one?

C-E-F-F#-G
C-Bb-A-Ab-G

Barry did teach that.

[pamosmusic]

Speaking of an Augmented sixth. What happens when you put an ascending I-IV-I line with a descending one?

C-E-F-F#-G
C-Bb-A-Ab-G

Barry did teach that.

He was quite a romantic

As some have pointed out, it's all counterpoint in any case.

Some, yes. Some have. Now if I could only think of who …

[Christian Miller]

He was quite a romantic



Some, yes. Some have. Now if I could only think of who …

Haha

This guys quite good btw. I liked his Boulez video, and he did a good one on Gould vs Mozart

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ragman1]

rodolpho, get cool, play nat/maj 7 on your doms and amaze your friends