New York, New York - original key changes

[Jonah]

Recently we played this tune with a friend (pianist).
I knew the song of course, and I knew original version because I have seen the movie a few times (and I love it).

And tbh I always preferred Liza Minelli movie version with its delicate sophisticated subtle arrangement and meaningful and very precise phrasing and intonation of Liza... it always sounded to me like a story and her performance like a real acting, a character...
And much more well-known Sinatra version seems more like a standard pop stuff to me.

But this is not about it...

When we listned to the records before playing - my friend picked it up from the record first and said - interesting key changes...

Sinatra's version is in D major and when it comes to the instrumental section it modulates to Eb, typical pop-thing half/one step up/down... I call it 'modulation for the poor'. And it ends in Eb major

And original version begins in Db then in the same place it modulates to B major (using the same melodic move) and then when it slows down it modulates to C major.

I really love the idea. The whole song is like a tonality appogiatura. As if it is actually in C major but tries to avoid it almost until the end.
I wonder how they came up with that - the key of B major is really not that typical.
And it is also whole step dpwn, and then half step up.
But the way it is made in the song, and the fact that the final key is fundamental C major makes it much more interesting really.
Maybe they got they idea and then chose C major as the final key and transposed other sections respectivelu.

And probablly it is not that easy to notice if you do not have absolute pitch, I mean you hear the modulation of course but you do not notice the idea with the key until you really dig into it.

[mr. beaumont]

What's the original version, I'd like to check it out.

Modulations in arranging are fascinating. Music, even pop music, can be remarkably intelligent.

[Jonah]

What's the original version, I'd like to check it out.

Modulations in arranging are fascinating. Music, even pop music, can be remarkably intelligent.

I think this one. As much as I know the song was written specially for the movie

[Vladan]

Can't be constructive in musical issues. All that comes to my mind is that half steps can work as subs for dominants. Everything's just V-I in disguise, where V-I is just I in disguise.

What I really wanted to say, until recently, like couple of months, or years, who can tell at my age, I was under impression that the song is some oldie standard. Then I got into "pretend that I know stuff" mood with my wife, BSing about the song Sinatra, Mineli ... then I realized that I really have no idea about what the original was. So, I checked Wiki and, voila, ... the song was made for the movie ...

Edited ...

Sorry for trolling.

[Jonah]

Can't be constructive in musical issues. All that comes to my mind is that half steps can work as subs for dominants. Everything's just V-I in disguise, where V-I is just I in disguise.

.

Somehow I noticed this reply only now)))
Too late maybe.

The modulation a whole tone down is more interesting of course than half-step up/down... but its function is the same, it soounds like and unprepared modulation.
It is like jumping up/down in arcade game and keep running. In pop music it is very simple way to bring in some variability.
Normally it gives an uplift feeling - like we ran and ran and ran and already are tired and suddenly it opens a new breath (but not for long as it si not really much new)))
Or a feeling and 'taking a sideway for a while'

If you listne to original - the first modulation (whole step down) gives more of a 'sidewalk feeling' - like 'let the vocalist take some rest, we step aside and walk around a bit'

And the second modulation (halfstep up) is is typical 'uplift' modulation.

Both are unprapared but still have a short 'connection phrase' not just a jump/

And here the keys combined both in an interesting way... Db is the beginning - then it goes to B - and then it goes (and ends) in C.

It looks like appogiatura on the level of the keys.

Probably they composed this tonal plan restrospectvely.

[ragman1]

I too have just seen this. I should really keep my mouth shut, I suppose, because lovers of the tune will find it terribly negative, I suppose, but anyway...

I think this is a show tune, a performance number that gets the audience going. In a theatre that may be a wonderful thing but it's probably not a jazz piece for instrumental gigs.

Really, I see it as the sort of thing played in care homes to old ladies in chairs. They'll close their eyes and sway along to the music, remembering Liza doing her thing when they were all a bit younger.

The purpose of the modulations, of course, is to keep the audience interested and add to the excitement and reach a climax to rapturous applause.

But as a performance piece for jazz instrumentalists, I wouldn't have thought so, not unless they do something very different with it. It's not a piece I'd play myself at gigs, personally. But maybe I'm too serious about it all :-)