August 2023 - The Very Thought of You

[M-ster]

Hello, Jazz people! Our standard for Aug 2023 will be The Very Thought of You (Ray Noble, 1934).

Background:
Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals (The Very Thought of You)

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

[ragman1]

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I found a nice backing track, so here's a take in tempo:

[ragman1]

The trouble with embellishing the tune so much is that when it comes to the solo you've already done it. So to speak.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The trouble with embellishing the tune so much is that when it comes to the solo you've already done it. So to speak.

Hmmm -

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I can't help wondering if you realize that there's an intro to the tune and that's what I'm playing up front. It's not in any fake book that I have, it's not on most sheet music, and it's not on many recordings. But it's in the original score. And it's on the early Nancy Wilson vinyl from which I learned it in 1964:

I won't lose any sleep over it, but I'm sorry you don't like my tracks.

[pamosmusic]

I found a nice backing track, so here's a take in tempo:

Tone is really nice. Very Tal Farlow!

[ragman1]

Never -

I'm sorry you don't like my tracks

I didn't say I didn't like your tracks. Sounds like you're fishing for compliments.

The first take I didn't recognise at all. The intro (that's not in any reference book, etc) took up over half (56%) of the entire recording. No reason why I should recognise it. You could have warned the poor listener who didn't know what he was listening to. It's very well played, of course, but it was an unknown tune for the uninitiated. People should be able to recognise what they're listening to. Mostly, inevitably, they're waiting for the tune they know and which they're expecting.

Of course, now we've discussed it, everyone will know, so that's all right. But it was long. Vocal intros went out some time ago. Stardust is a notable exception, of course, where the intro has almost become part of the tune by default.

And pamos is right. Lovely tone. But he hasn't said anything about the content :-)

[pamosmusic]

And pamos is right. Lovely tone. But he hasn't said anything about the content :-)

Erm. Don’t use me as tacit support for your strong opinions about other people’s playing.

[ragman1]

I don't need support.

Never is a very good player, one of the best here. No question. If he was a beginner I doubt I'd comment. But he's not. So if he uses up more than half a 4 minute clip playing something unrecognisable I think I can tell him about it.

I just thought it was interesting that he posted two clips and all you say is nice guitar tone. Couldn't help myself, sorry :-)

[kris]

I don't understand why Ragman writes his opinions.Searching for negative features of recordings is probably his way of being here.Therefore, I will not post my version of this beautiful song here.
Don't kill yourself.

[ragman1]

Actually, it's not an opinion, but we won't go into that.

I'm not sure which is worse. Somebody getting iffy about someone criticising their music or other people getting iffy because someone has criticised somebody else's music!

[kris]

[ragman1]

Good man. So are you two going to try this tune? I think it's trickier than it looks, especially very slowly.

(I tried it as a bossa and it wasn't very good. Maybe someone can do it better).

[CliffR]

That is really lovely - thanks for sharing it!

[grahambop]

I thought Never’s intro was great, beautiful ideas and playing. Like a sort of overture.

Playing a good intro can really make a ballad sound better, it’s something people should work on more often I think (myself included!). Joe Pass and Bruce Forman go on about this a lot. Just jumping straight into the tune can be kind of obvious.

My favourite version of Autumn Leaves is the one by Cannonball and Miles, they do an intro which lasts nearly a minute and it creates a great atmosphere which makes that version stand out.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Vocal intros went out some time ago. Stardust is a notable exception, of course, where the intro has almost become part of the tune by default.

That will come as a surprise to all of those who perform tunes like “I Left My Heart in San Francisco”, “Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered”, “My Funny Valentine”, “A Foggy Day”, “Someone to Watch Over Me”, “Our Love is Here to Stay”, “Lush Life”, and many many others.

Intros are also part of the rich heritage of bebop and mainstream jazz. My trio backs a different vocalist every Thursday night for the first hour of our weekly 3 hour show, and many put tunes with wonderful intros on their lists. I’ve had to find, transcribe and learn more than a few in the years we’ve been doing this. Some of those intros are cooler than the tunes.

Those intros are integral to solo jazz guitar and to instrumental jazz in general. I hope you will seek them out and enrich your own knowledge and playing. Here’s a nice one to get you started.

[grahambop]

As for saying the vocal intros went out a long time ago, that’s not always the case. Quite a lot of players like to use some of those those intros in instrumental versions, if they sound good. E.g. Dexter Gordon on ‘More Than You Know’, that’s a really nice one. And it’s even longer than Never’s intro!

[pamosmusic]

As for saying the vocal intros went out a long time ago, that’s not always the case.

Yeah and I guess to point out the obvious: singers still use the vocal intros.

If it sounds good, why shouldn’t a guitar player?

To state the also obvious: this is a recording on SoundCloud. If he’d like to post a recording that consists mostly of intro and improvisation, that’s fine by me. It sounds lovely and it’s clear he knows the tune. Perhaps he wanted to—I don’t know, I’m just spit-balling here—show off his lovely solo guitar intro and do a little improvising, rather than send it in to Downbeat for critics poll consideration.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The intro (that's not in any reference book, etc) took up over half (56%) of the entire recording.

PS: in the interest of accuracy, the intro is 1:16 and the entire track is 4:13.

[pamosmusic]

PS: in the interest of accuracy, the intro is 1:16 and the entire track is 4:13.

You’re walking into a trap.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

You’re walking into a trap.

Maybe so. I decided not to add this to my original response, thinking “I probably shouldn’t do this”. One of the principles of life strongly espoused by the guy who was chair of my department for many years when I was a young academic was that if you find yourself thinking “I probably shouldn’t do this”, don’t do it.

But fact is fact, and a minute is equally long for both the bull and the bear. So I’ll take the hit and listen to that old guy in my head saying “I told you so”.

And on the other hand, it could be fun…..

[Christian Miller]

Technically it’s the verse of the song, no?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Technically it’s the verse of the song, no?

That’s a kettle of fish! I think of verses as individual, non-repetitive sections separated by a repeating chorus. Where there are lyrics, this is easier to visualize. But in tunes without lyrics, the “verses” are also repetitive. Even with improvisation, the chord structure of the verse(s) is repetitive. Of course, this also begs the question of how to define the bridge (aka release) in the structure.

An intro may be completely different from verses and chorus, or it may use one or more elements of each (eg the last 8 bars, part or all of a melodic theme, or a related tone-leading chord progression). But I’ve also seen intros defined in descriptive or instructional material as the verse of a song. So there seems to be no consistent definition or naming convention at all.

Meanwhile, I just remembered what’s probably my favorite intro of all - and one of the longest I’ve ever heard…..

[ragman1]

Technically it’s the verse of the song, no?

Yes.