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hi gang,
ok this is Aretha Soul not jazz
ive got a covers gig coming up ,
the chord chart for this tune
says Cm throughout ....
the opening Gtr lick has some
definite E natural in it ,
(and indeed it finishes on a C7)
before the vocal comes in and
it then the tune feels like Cminor
the underlying rhythm gtr part
has a min/maj ambiguity
going on .....
Question
is this a bluesy thing going on ?
another Question
what king of instrument was it played on , the gtr intro sounds like first position with open strings
a baritone tuned to C ?
or a fender 6 string bass maybe
anyone know ?
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08-18-2022 06:39 AM
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This is a Pop Staples thing going on. The guitarist, and creator of the intro, is Joe South.
The guitar sounds like a Fender Bass VI.
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It's the old blues thing: is it a major or minor 3rd? - Yes.
I'd like to have time to post a quick example demo but, in the meantime, read post nº 7 here:
Chain of Fools | Telecaster Guitar Forum
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Hi, P,
Originally Posted by pingu
This is Soul Music. We did all these covers in my horn bands for years and there is one basic principle to follow: use your ears. As I remember, it opens up with a simple solo guitar lick in the 1st position that sets the tone, and then your off. Minor is too dead and my guitarists always used minor7 with funky comping(you can play it in other keys to accommodate your vocalist). Don't play it like a clock(think Cornell Dupree licks) and remember, the bass and drums are the dominant pulse throughout the piece. . . in fact, they are the piece. Remember this is Soul Music! Here's the original recording by Sister Soul . . .
Marinero
P.S. Listen carefully to the guitar in the background. This is not washing machine guitar. Don't get too involved with trying to copy every lick. It's not Wagner, afterall. MLast edited by Marinero; 08-18-2022 at 08:25 AM. Reason: addition
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thats very informative Peter , thanks Originally Posted by Peter C
and thanks everyone
I’m good now ....
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I think the confusion is from the common use of a #9 above the dom7 these days. Marinero can elaborate if there’s more to it, but most players today think that a dominant 7#9 is integral to funk and soul. It’s not.
Those who try to be bluesier bend that 9th a little toward a major 3rd - but soul is not blues and neither is funk. So it just introduces ambiguity that excites those who never heard or played the originals and irritates us old farts. The #9 in Aretha’s original is a long (ie 1 1/2 beats) passing tone on the bottom- listen for the Eb-C on beats 3 & 4 behind the dominant 7th on which the tune floats. I’d have to listen to it again, but I don’t recall hearing even one 7#9 from a rhythm guitar in the original.
I agree that it sounds like it was played on a Bass VI, but I don’t know this to be the case. The sound just seems too tight and clean to be a dropped E.
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Lots of people playing this in min / min7, which is fine if you want to end up with a speeded up version of Leave those kids alone. 7#9 would be a better option, but too nasty here, IMO. So, I'm playing this as a dom. 7th and Mr piano player, please omit the 3rd. Something along these lines:
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I used to wear out phonograph needles worrying about this stuff. Good luck with your gig, Pingu!
Marinero
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did a rehearsal of this last night
I played the intro up the octave
and everyone was very happy
Hung around the 8th fret a lot ....
as you do
Chain chain chain !
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"I think the confusion is from the common use of a #9 above the dom7 these days. Marinero can elaborate if there’s more to it, but most players today think that a dominant 7#9 is integral to funk and soul. It’s not."
Nevershouldhavesoldit
Well, N
Pingu and his band members are happy with his results and that's what really matters and we wish him a good gig. For me, I grew up with this music 24/7 and when I first started playing at 12 y.o. in local bands as a 3 chord guitarist, we played many things wrong because there weren't YT tutorials, backing tracks, internet blogs, or even sheet music for most of the material. It was the old needle against vinyl and we , usually, never got it perfect. But, we played the music and the crowd somehow identified with the song. So, if you heard my band in the 60's, it would sound different than your band since it was our take on the music. And, there were usually only a few chords that were ever used and they were almost always 7th and m7th chords--this is 60's Soul not Y2K music and it was heavily based on the Blues with a funky beat. Studio guys who were making these recordings like Cornell Dupree rarely vamped or kept a steady beat in the background but played creative licks at key points in the music. It is Bass and drum-driven music with drums and bass being the ribs and guitars and horns the sauce. And, in Aretha's original recording I provided, that's also the case. So, when you hear a band that's playing "Soul Music" with a steady guitar rhythm(rare) in the background, it's more likely a Credence Clearwater Survival cover band than Sister Soul, Sam and Dave, Wilson Pickett, etc.. Here's another example of this concept of background vamping from the old set sheet of songs hidden behind my Harmony amp. Enjoy.
Marinero
?
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O.K., I swore I wouldn't do this but between practice sessions this morning on CG playing 19th Century Spanish Romantic Era music, "Chain of Fools" popped into my mind. So, I thought about Pingu's gig and thought "how would I play this today---50 years later?" Not C, C7 . . not(b/#) 9's or 11's . . . simply Cm7 III position and when vamping alternating between 2nd and 1st strings on the top(4 string chord/5 string chord) to create a sense of movement and a different feel/texture and some tasty licks throughout(that's your head). I don't care what the internet says . . . this is how I would play this today and I definitely don't like the C in VIII. For me, it loses the Funk.
Marinero
P.S. And if you really want to get the Funk, throw in 6th string A/5th position on the 4th beat of the vamp. Now, you got the Funk! M
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In that post, our friend discusses how it was done back in the 60s. That sound was etched on my memory as a nipper when I was more into riding my bicycle than playing guitar, but as soon as I did, I had to get it down. Originally Posted by pingu
You just learn it, like an Andalusian kid learns to play the cadence without a thought for why all those flattened notes sound cool over the major V - that's what I'm calling it, though I'm sure there's some theoretical reason for calling it otherwise. In jazz, we play all kinds of "altered" stuff without anyone batting en eyelid....
Singing / blowing minor blues over a dom7 is very much a part of this sound. A min/7 there is just taking things too literally.
By the way, it took me about the same time to knock out and upload that rough and ready 1-minute demo as it did to write this post. All you have to do is pick up a guitar and point your phone in the right direction. Better than words in most cases, methinks. Even if the video stinks
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Will someone PLEASE pass that damn doobie around!!! Originally Posted by medblues
Marinero
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After listening carefully to Aretha's original recording, I'd probably try to leave out the (major) 3rd as much as possible Originally Posted by pingu
and just insinuate it very sparingly.
If you're the only guitarist, you'll have to work out how to combine (parts of) both the baritone tremolo riff and the choppy 8th fret figure, because they're both key to the groove. Good luck with that - I have not experimented to see if it's at all possible. An octave pedal like the Boss OC3 may facilitate things.
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