January 2018 - Take the A Train

**kris** · 01-08-2018, 02:54 PM

where is the head?

**gggomez** · 01-09-2018, 05:13 PM

Was working on this last night. I have been incorporating into my practice, especially when learning heads, the Mick Goodrich Advancing Guitarist idea of playing on a single string.

Really interesting the different feel and dynamic exploration of a tune. Certain notes really pop, for me the song really came alive, much more than when playing in one position. You can then take that dynamic to a simpler way to get your fingers around the tune.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-10-2018, 11:19 AM

Reg, it'd be good to have you aboard for these, when you can.

Yeah, I think the positive feedback is a big part, maybe the biggest. I'd also say don't be afraid to ask questions of players, too...like "Hey, I like what you play at :23, can you tell me what's going on there?" Obviously, we can dissect the whole tune too, if people want. But really it's about getting those recordings out there. It's an "audio diary."

**Reg** · 01-11-2018, 10:25 AM

Yea there is a balance between playing, practicing and then actually talking about the music. Very few can just play... very few.

So maybe a question... when we look at Take the A train... what do you think, what's your process to becoming aware of the tune how to perform etc...

The Form is pretty straight ahead, A A B A. 8 bar sections.

So the melody is not so clear, it hints at a few different directions.

Personally I either play or hear the tune as a Blues or a jazz pop tune.

The blues seems more common approach, but the I VI II V pop approach works.

The A section is basically an eight bar blues, and the B section finally goes to the IV chord.

The difference for me is how I approach the II chord in the A sections and how I approach that chord in the B section (both D7)

So I either hear the D7 as a sub of some type, in the "A" section of, sub of A- the VI- chord .... or a V of II....anyway the reason I'm bring this up is because, personally how I hear the changes.... what type of function I hear the chord as having opens different doors of improvisation.

I'll post something later and show the differences...

Thanks for comments, and looking forward to becoming part of thread again.

**Little Jay** · 01-11-2018, 11:47 AM

The A-part as an 8-bar blues..... hmmm, interesting. I don’t see it, but that’s probably just me. An 8 bar blues in what key?

**Reg** · 01-11-2018, 12:21 PM

Yes.. OK so a latin or Bossa can also be a blues.... Personally what makes a blues... is I to IV.... or as in A train... Would be C to F (key of C)

Generally I take that basic chord movement and hear... or think, Tonic and subdominant. ... I can hear the D7 functioning as subdominant or the IV chord.
And then when the bridge goes to F... it somewhat reinforces the Blues.... OK can also be standard swing dance pop tun also.

My point is the tune has options as far as to how one can play. As Kris said Similar changes as Girl from and Desafinado and playing typical latin montunos or rhythmic figures... performing as Latin Jazz, is great and personally one of my favorite approaches to performing almost any jazz tune. I love playing latin, Brazilian grooves... Hell most of the time at gigs I'll go into some type of latin feel for Blues feel standards... add II Vs or sus chord patterns, groove montunos Helps break up solos sections.

The other think I like to do... is find blues in any tune. It's just another reference, a way to perform tunes. And I rarely find audiences that can't relate. Yea, it not hip and generally when musicians get together... they generally want to perform like the audience is all musicians etc... Anyway... just trying to get us thinking about how one could approach the tune.

**kris** · 01-11-2018, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

The A-part as an 8-bar blues..... hmmm, interesting. I don’t see it, but that’s probably just me. An 8 bar blues in what key?

Hi Little Jay,
Maybe there is a 8-bar blues in good key....I like it:

**kris** · 01-11-2018, 12:33 PM

I like the blues feel very much...I saw George Benson playing the blues over Rythm changes.
Thanks Reg for very interesting view.
sorry for the clip with jazz dance---it is just for making good atmosphere.
jazzingly
Kris

**ragman1** · 01-11-2018, 01:57 PM

I like the idea of D7 as a sub for Am7 (1-6-2-5-1) but I don't see it as a blues. An 8-bar blues usually has IV much earlier on. Going to IV for the bridge is pretty standard. It's more a swing tune with a sort of loose bluesy feel.

I'm surprised no version I've heard has played the F to D7 in the bridge as |F / E7 Eb7 | D7 |. I was going to try that but never got round to it.

**kris** · 01-12-2018, 05:44 AM

Question for mr. Reg:
We are talking about blues feel over standard jazz progressions so where are bendings,light strings etc
Most of jazz guitarsits use hard strings or hard tension set up.
How do you mean blues feel?
I am big fan of Scof...sometimes I think he is a reall blues player/ look BB.King/.
I've heard Scof interpretation of ballad with a lot of string bendings used in typical blues/not jazzy blues/.
I talked about the same to Mike Stern two months ago.Mike said - "my playing is from the heart"..." I feel bluesy today"...
I like it.It is so natural.
Thanks
Kris

**Reg** · 01-12-2018, 10:06 AM

Hey Kris.

I'm not talking about Rock and roll blues. light strings, bending, rock pentatonics, cowboy chords etc...

Generally the blues with jazz... are just use of Blue notes, and harmony, (chords) that are derived from blue notes. More from the gospel blues direction. Jazz blues.... not rock blues.

The feel... it's difficult to break down.... so feel is basically how one organizes time.... and how they organize the attacks and articulations.

Personally... the difference in feel, rhythmically, is how the swing aspect is played. Swing is about the breakdown of the triplet.

Straight western swing, bluegrass etc... is straight. The phrasing is very mechanical, the breakdown is not stretched out. Don't just think or hear solos.... hear comping or rhythm section feel. Patterns are longer, comping phrases are longer and the patterns also have patterns.

You can have a 16 bar phrase with repeating 4 bar patterns that have slight differences that also have a pattern.
And then how one can organize the harmony, comping or soloing using that rhythmic feel.
Or as could be with Take the A train... 8 bar phrases... I'll make vid asap.

It's all good, no wrong... but different.

You can imply a blue note and actually never play it. I remember years ago on this forum, I use to have heated discussions with this player, a straight player, very good player... but somewhat blind. Someone posted a comping version of a 12 bar blues... and this guy got into a discussion about the I IV V organization etc... and never even noticed that the V7 chord was never played... but you felt as though it was.
I guess my point is sometimes there is more.... or less to what something is.

**kris** · 01-13-2018, 08:27 AM

Jazz Masters:

**gggomez** · 01-16-2018, 04:59 PM

I am playing around with diminished and augmented. Where might you use them in this tune for comping and or soloing?

**gggomez** · 01-16-2018, 10:06 PM

Thanks and do you think of this when you are playing or do you hear it/sing it. eg do you think wholetone scale over the D7 or do you hear/sing the b9?

**kris** · 01-17-2018, 07:52 AM

For all beginers players:
Do not think too much about scales.
Most important scale in jazz is melodic minor I think.
Concentrate on using this scale over Take The A changes:
a min melodic,d min melodic,Ab min melodic,g min melodic,c# min melodic
there are:
a min melodic over D7b5 or D7#11
d min melodic/or d dorian/ over dm7
Ab min melodic over G7/can be altered/
g min melodic over gm7
C# min melodic over C7/with alteration/...
Creat 8th solos using this scale with nice melodies and nice phrasing.
Great piano video but can be adopted for guitar:

**kris** · 01-17-2018, 09:43 AM

I have one beginer sudent,that he know probaly more than me about scales but practicaly he don not know how to use them .
So my sugestion is to learn more about one scale first/melodic minor/.
This scale has everything if you want to creat nice solos not only at beginers levels.
I recomend:
Barry Galbraith "Daily Exercises in the melodic & harmonic minor modes" and Emily Remler Edu videos.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-17-2018, 10:14 AM

It's like I was told many years ago...better to know 5 things and really KNOW them than to KNOW OF 50 things.

(but for jazz, if you're gonna know something outside the good old major scale, melodic minor is where it's at...at least know how to access it's sounds, even if you can't run the scale up and down the neck)

**kris** · 01-17-2018, 10:40 AM

There are a lot of patterns,licks with minor melodic in books or on youtube played by top musicians .
So how to use it in good way is no so simple.Learn patterns,practise licks in every key,adopt to the style of your playing... it take years.
what's a hard work...
My first expierience with this scale was years ago when I started to transcribe and analyse 2 5 1 progressions. It was in 70's.
...and the next step - modes of melodic minor....

Best
Kris

**kris** · 01-21-2018, 01:10 PM

Very nice 3/4 version:

**kris** · 01-23-2018, 04:13 AM

**kris** · 01-23-2018, 04:17 AM

**kris** · 01-23-2018, 04:20 AM

**ragman1** · 01-23-2018, 05:43 AM

Thanks for that Wes track, Kris. I was looking for it and couldn't find it, I don't know why! But somewhere there's got to be a better quality recording...