Joni Mitchell

**fasstrack** · 06-19-2017, 09:40 AM

I've been playing her songs lately. The melodies and changes are very beautiful and easy to learn---and stand alone without lyrics. The lyrics are amazing, and I want to do her songs with singers I work with.

I play Both Sides Now, just learned Chelsea Morning, and want to look at Blue and later things.

It's a shame she ruined that beautiful voice by smoking, and she doesn't look well these days. But what an artist! The songs will live on.

Here are some:

joni mitchell chelsea morning - YouTube

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-19-2017, 09:47 AM

I rate Joni and Carol King as the greatest female singer-songwriter artists of the 20th century. But as they would say, just take out the word female from that statement. And they'd be right. They are among the greatest singer-songwriters of the 20th century. I'm not surprised a fine musician like yourself would be interested.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-19-2017, 09:51 AM

Joni's songs stand the test of time. I've been working on "Down to You." Just a wonderful tune, great chords, great melody, great words. I picked it up from Luciana Souza's great rendition.

Blue would be a good one. I think I might try "Amelia." I love that song.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-19-2017, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

I rate Joni and Carol King as the greatest female singer-songwriter artists of the 20th century. But as they would say, just take out the word female from that statement. And they'd be right. They are among the greatest singer-songwriters of the 20th century. I'm not surprised a fine musician like yourself would be interested.

And you take Joni and Carole's output, you have the whole gamut...pop, r&b, soul, folk, art song...

National treasures.

**paulkogut** · 06-19-2017, 10:05 AM

There are a bunch of transcriptions here Joni Mitchell - Guitar and Piano Transcriptions . The 'guitar' ones are tabs of her odd tunings, but there are a lot of piano scores that I've found really useful...

PK

TH · 06-19-2017, 10:37 AM

I have her in my regular set list. Along with the songs of Kate Bush.

In addition to Chelsea Morning, I play
Barandgrill
The Gallery
Cactus Tree
Conversation
For Free

Such a great wealth of such beautiful music.
David

A gorgeous version of Sunny Sunday done by Theo Bleckmann and Ben Monder

**Michael Kaye** · 06-19-2017, 10:49 AM

Joni is a goddess. Plain and simple. Lyrically she can't be touched, except for maybe Sondheim, or Dylan on a good day. Her sense of rhythm sets her apart. Is there a word in the English language she can't make musical? I don't think so.

**fasstrack** · 06-19-2017, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

I rate Joni and Carol King as the greatest female singer-songwriter artists of the 20th century. But as they would say, just take out the word female from that statement. And they'd be right. They are among the greatest singer-songwriters of the 20th century. I'm not surprised a fine musician like yourself would be interested.

I put Carole King in a different---not LESSER category: she's a top-of-the-line songwriting craftsperson, the way (don't laugh) Barry Manilow or the great ASB composers of the generations before hers were. They were like machines, cranking it out like sausage for the recording artists---that was the gig, and they did it brilliantly. Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow (Goffin-King) is a classic of its kind.

But because writers like Ms. King were writing on assignment for recording artists of every ilk in the pop world, their songs were more generic than personal---again, the gig.

Joni Mitchell, it seems to me, is a different animal entirely: one of the 'conversational' writers who didn't do it 'by the book' (e.g., 'near' rather than 'true' rhymes---but who cares when they worked so well). I find her work much more personal than Carole King's. She was writing from a deep place. And her songs, of course, were covered many times, meaning she struck a universal chord also.

The sad fact is that the singer-songwriters of Mitchell's generation----Dylan, the Beatles, etc., etc.----put a kabosh on the Brill Building side of songwriting. The gig was over because these people wrote for themselves. The good news: it led to a solo career for Carole King, starting with the mega-selling LP Tapestry.

I shouldn't end on a sour note, but I've remembered this for years: Paul Simon took a mean and unfair pot shot at Ms. King years ago:

'When I hear Carole King, I think of toast. When I hear Carly Simon I hear a human being'.

As a songwriter myself, and trying-to-be-decent-sort: For shame, Paul!...

**fasstrack** · 06-19-2017, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by paulkogut

There are a bunch of transcriptions here Joni Mitchell - Guitar and Piano Transcriptions . The 'guitar' ones are tabs of her odd tunings, but there are a lot of piano scores that I've found really useful...

PK

Thanks!

**fep** · 06-19-2017, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

Joni Mitchell, it seems to me, is a different animal entirely: one of the 'conversational' writers who didn't do it 'by the book' (e.g., 'near' rather than 'true' rhymes---but who cares when they worked so well). I find her work much more personal than Carole King's. She was writing from a deep place. And her songs, of course, were covered many times, meaning she struck a universal chord also.

I don't care for the overuse of Perfect Rhymes. I think it can sound childish like Dr. Seuss (I like Dr. Seuss but he was writing for children). Using the full palate of rhyme types seems much more interesting and creative to me.

**fasstrack** · 06-19-2017, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by fep

I don't care for the overuse of Perfect Rhymes. I think it can sound childish like Dr. Seuss (I like Dr. Seuss but he was writing for children). Using the full palate of rhyme types seems much more interesting and creative to me.

There are different schools of thought about that. I guess, learn the rules first, then you have license to break 'em.

Jimmy Webb has been wringing his hands for years b/c 'Time/Line' in Wichita Lineman wasn't a 'true rhyme'.

Easy, boy!

As the spirit moves ye...

**mr. beaumont** · 06-19-2017, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I put Carole King in a different---not LESSER category: she's a top-of-the-line songwriting craftsperson, the way (don't laugh) Barry Manilow or the great ASB composers of the generations before hers were. They were like machines, cranking it out like sausage for the recording artists---that was the gig, and they did it brilliantly. Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow (Goffin-King) is a classic of its kind.

But because writers like Ms. King were writing on assignment for recording artists of every ilk in the pop world, their songs were more generic than personal---again, the gig.

Joni Mitchell, it seems to me, is a different animal entirely: one of the 'conversational' writers who didn't do it 'by the book' (e.g., 'near' rather than 'true' rhymes---but who cares when they worked so well). I find her work much more personal than Carole King's. She was writing from a deep place. And her songs, of course, were covered many times, meaning she struck a universal chord also.

The sad fact is that the singer-songwriters of Mitchell's generation----Dylan, the Beatles, etc., etc.----put a kabosh on the Brill Building side of songwriting. The gig was over because these people wrote for themselves. The good news: it led to a solo career for Carole King, starting with the mega-selling LP Tapestry.

I shouldn't end on a sour note, but I've remembered this for years: Paul Simon took a mean and unfair pot shot at Ms. King years ago:

'When I hear Carole King, I think of toast. When I hear Carly Simon I hear a human being'.

As a songwriter myself, and trying-to-be-decent-sort: For shame, Paul!...

Tapestry should have put those thoughts to rest, I think.

**fasstrack** · 06-19-2017, 09:19 PM

You'd think the name pop stars would be above this---with all the moolah and fame----but a lot of them are pettier than the poorer jazzers. Go figure...

**JohnoL** · 06-19-2017, 09:56 PM

I have her in my regular set list. Along with the songs of Kate Bush.

In addition to Chelsea Morning, I play
Barandgrill
The Gallery
Cactus Tree
Conversation
For Free

Such a great wealth of such beautiful music.

These are some of my favorite songs. Thanks for doing these.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-19-2017, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

You'd think the name pop stars would be above this---with all the moolah and fame----but a lot of them are pettier than the poorer jazzers. Go figure...

Skin Deep only.

**Philco** · 06-19-2017, 10:33 PM

Ok I can't help myself. This artist means so much to me.

Oh and in this song, she rhymes "typewriters" with "typewriters" and "humming" with "humming".

There are no rules really.
Some Larry Carlton genius lines as well.....

**cosmic gumbo** · 06-19-2017, 11:23 PM

Anyone who could get the cats in Weather Report as their studio band is a genius in my book.

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-20-2017, 02:15 AM

Her odd guitar playing on God Must Be A Boogie Man from Mingus is wonderful. In fact that whole album is one of my favourites, a celebration of two genius bass players:

**Rob MacKillop** · 06-20-2017, 02:34 AM

I love this video. She shure could hang with the best musicians...

**Jonah** · 06-20-2017, 08:35 AM

Carol King is great song-writer but she is more in commercial style... using lots of cliches of pop.
Not that it is bad, but this is more for the market thing.

Joni does not go for any compromise as a song-writer... and to me she is much bigger as a personality in her songs and music...
it's hard to compare her with almost anyone...

I like playing Joni's songs also becasue she uses lots of different tunings and subtle nuances in what seems to be simple changes... but if you play these changes too sttraigh it will not sound interesting... trying to figure out these details is much fun for me when playing her songs...

Joni Mitchell, it seems to me, is a different animal entirely: one of the 'conversational' writers who didn't do it 'by the book' (e.g., 'near' rather than 'true' rhymes---but who cares when they worked so well).

I believe in modern poetry using false, complex or consonant rhymes is much more challenging and interesting than just common perfect rhymes...

**mrcee** · 06-20-2017, 11:09 AM

I heard that she got a synth guitar at some point and stored maybe as many as 100 different tunings in it.
That seems like a good use for that guitar.

**Donnie** · 06-20-2017, 11:47 AM

I like what David Crosby said about Joni Mitchell, when he first heard her and introduced her to Graham Nash; he basically said "She's so good, nobody is that good, but she is." Carol King; yeah, she's this vault of lyrics and melodies. P.B.S. did an program about her that was really good. Life Magazine "Rock and Roll at 50 Years," called one of the best Song Writers of our Time. I can see that for sure!

**fep** · 06-20-2017, 01:43 PM

It's kind of a shame that Carol King is being compared to Joni Mitchell as Carol King has a large body of work and is a great songwriter.

Joni though, to me, is in a league of her own. I don't think anyone should be compared to her.

**fep** · 06-20-2017, 01:51 PM

And this...

**Major7#5** · 06-20-2017, 05:09 PM

[QUOTE=fasstrack;781760]I put Carole King in a different and all the rest of your post,

really interesting thanks, i have heard them but not well or etheryhing, never thought of things like that
King doing commercial stuff and Mitchel entirely her own,

i have just come to like Billy Joel (never disliked him just never really listen) also good. well it new-ish to me
Bebop & Jazz can make you too selective .