Is "Yardbird Suite" a "Roestta" contrafact?

[MarkRhodes]

It has been said that Charlie Parker's tune "Yardbird Suite" was based on the changes of a tune called "Rosetta." It has also been said that this claim has been refuted.

Here is a performance of "Rosetta" by Henry "Red" Allen's All-Stars, a group that includes Coleman Hawkins on tenor sax, Milt Hinton on bass, and Jo Jones on drums. (Jo has a nice solo here.) Danny Barker plays guitar and his comping is quite audible (-which is not always the case with recordings from that era.)

Here's a clip of Parker's "Yardbird Suite."

(For those who may not know, a 'contrafact' is a new tune written over a familiar chord progression.)

[robertm2000]

"Contrafact," eh? Interesting! It sounds like something that has been done for as long as jazz has been around. But about 15 years ago, I remember reading in a publication from G. Schirmer, the music company, a lengthy article called "The 'Hidden Theme' Tradition in Jazz." It was an analysis of some jazz tune that shared the chords of the Rhythm Changes. What was odd about it was that this article was supposedly a summary of a study the author had done as a thesis that netted him a doctorate in Music! Your post here has made me grin a bit about that, and it makes me wonder if the music faculty was paying attention!

[pubylakeg]

Interesting,
I'm reading that it's author Brian Priestley's assertion that the 2nd bar in the A section would dictate different note choices in the melody. (The bridge is a little bit different too).

Personally, I think Parker's predilection towards pre-existing song forms and chord sequences, combined with the re-harmonization techniques developed by Bebop era musicians would suggest that it was based on "Rosetta". I think that's a commonly held ( and long standing ) belief amongst the Jazz musicians community.

I'd suggest that was what motivated Tal Farlow to arrange his recording of "Yardbird Suite" in the manner he did.
After the (re-harmonized) statement of the head, the key is changed to F, the common key for "Rosetta". I think this is at least a "knowing reference" to the similarity between the two tunes. It was also something Tal and Red Norvo had done before on "Honeysuckle Rose" where they play "Scrapple" at the end, like a shout chorus.

It's also a good excuse to listen to some first class Bebop.

Not forgetting the lyric.

[MarkRhodes]

An interesting article on contrafacts...

Jazz Contrafacts and Jazz Reharmonization for Improvisers | jazzadvice.com

Some of the most famous examples:

• What is this thing Called Love = Hot House
• How High the Moon = Ornithology
• Indiana = Donna Lee
• Sweet Georgia Brown = Dig
• You Stepped out of a Dream = Chick’s Tune
• Just You, Just Me (Just Us -> Justice) = Evidence
• Lady Bird = Half Nelson
• All the Things You Are = This is for Albert

[MarkRhodes]

I'd suggest that was what motivated Tal Farlow to arrange his recording of "Yardbird Suite" in the manner he did.
After the (re-harmonized) statement of the head, the key is changed to F, the common key for "Rosetta". I think this is at least a "knowing reference" to the similarity between the two tunes. It was also something Tal and Red Norvo had done before on "Honeysuckle Rose" where the play "Scrapple" at the end, like a shout chorus.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks.

[PMB]

Here's a version of "Rosetta" featuring a rare appearance by Chuck Wayne (solo @ 2'38"):

[MarkRhodes]

Here's a version of "Rosetta" featuring a rare appearance by Chuck Wayne (solo @ 2'38")

Cool. Thanks.
Anyone recognize the host of that program? The voice was familiar but I couldn't place the face....

[princeplanet]

Rosetta! First jazz solo I ever transcribed was from this version with Django and Andre Ekyan. I transcribed the Ekyan solo and even copied all the bends. Still one of my all time swing solos! (bet you're thinking Andre who? )

[jtizzle]

I mean, you can take the hint with the fact that Bird never really wrote a tune. People say Confirmation is an exception, but Confirmation is almost an 8 bar bird blues (which is just a reharm of a regular blues), with a bridge.

Yardbird Suite (and Dewey Square) are contrafacts of Rosetta, with altered bridges, same way as how Scrapple is a contrafact of Honeysuckle, with a Rhythm changes bridge.

[jtizzle]

Reharms...

Rosetta's second measure, is a V back to a I. Dominant to tonic, or simply a cadence back to the tonic. The bVII is simply a dominant substitute derived from the diminished family. iv7 precedes the bVII acting as a temporary ii-V. iv-bVII is a common substitute for any type of cadence that tonicizes something (backdoor resolution/cadence).

Most contrafacts have some sort of reharmonization. In fact, if we want to take the original chord changes so literally, we can't call many of the rhythm changes contrafacts (like Crazeology) or blues (Blues for Alice) as "contrafacts" (which they are) because of simple reharmonizations done to the changes.

[MarkRhodes]

there are hundreds of tunes that share the same progression. rosetta also has a different bridge. i dont think there is enough there to call it a contrafact.re: blues for alice: since blues is not a tune, the term contrafact does not apply imo.

Well, contrafact refers to progressions, not tunes. "Rhythm changes" isn't a tune either but there are many contrafacts: Salt Peanuts, Rhythm-a-ning, Cottontail, Lester Leaps In, Meet the Flintstones (-cartoon theme song), and on and on and on that list goes.

[MarkRhodes]

contrafacts refer to progressions of tunes. "i got rhythm" is a tune, the blues isn't.

Here is how I understand the meaning of the term "contrafact."

>>>In jazz, a contrafact is a musical composition consisting of a new melody overlaid on a familiar harmonic structure. [ 1] Contrafact can also be explained as the use of borrowed chord progressions.<<<< (From Wikipedia)

The 12-bar blues progression (such as Ellington used for "C Jam Blues") is a familiar harmonic structure. So are what we call "rhythm changes" and also "the circle progression" and the "ragtime progression" (-think of the song "Five-Foot-Two"). Some blues changes are less common but common enough to have names (-Bird blues, Stormy Monday changes, West Coast changes, the Basie blues progression, the 8-bar blues progression)

[MarkRhodes]

i got rhythm is a tune, that's why dexerity is *based* on rhythm changes. the blues is a common progression, that's why tenor madness is not *based* on the blues but simply *is* a blues. the former is a contrafact, the latter is not. and nobody on stage ever calls "lets play the circle progression in Bb" or the "ragtime progression" since they do not represent tunes.

Uh, I agree with you that when people at jam sessions call for tunes, they call the name of the tune they want to play. As for the rest, I am happy with the definition of "contrafact" I listed above and see no reason to change it.

And for the record, "Dexterity" is NOT based on the TUNE "I Got Rhythm." You seem to think "rhythm changes" and "I Got Rhythm" are the same thing. They are not.

[MarkRhodes]

they are not? care to elaborate?

Okay, you don't understand the difference between a melody (-the tune) and a chord progression.

This site offers lessons on what its author calls "money chords," that is, progressions that work for many styles of music (-jazz, pop, rock, folk, doo-wop, ballads, et al)

</title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#000000" alink="#0000ff" vlink="#000000"> <basefont size="3"> <div align="center"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META name="description" content="Large and growing collection of popular chord progression

[MarkRhodes]

[QUOTE=dortmundjazzguitar;461467]exellent site, maybe someday you should actually read it /QUOTE]

I bought the guy's book years ago. I'm a songwriter and I found it very helpful. Sometimes, I used it see how songs I liked were put together and other times I would look at a progression I hadn't heard and thought, "Let's see what we can make of this..."


Amazon.com: Money Chords: A Songwriter's Sourcebook of Popular Chord Progressions (9780595010394): Richard Scott: Books

[pubylakeg]

Great site Mark, thanks for the link.