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Some prices may be unreasonable but many buyers are just a pita. More often than not it is not about the guitar at all, it's all about the price. People are not buying an instrument, they are buying a price. A bargain they can brag about. If you really want a guitar because it speaks to you it just doesn't matter if you pay 100 bucks more or less, especially if the guitar is unique or at least very rare. But people always want to negotiate as if their life depends on it. After that, they go out and spend their money unreflectingly on unnecessary stuff like too expensive food and stupid luxury goods. But guitars need to be the bargain of the century on principle. I usually tell them to pay or leave, I'm not willing to sell for less than what I think my guitars are worth. If I don't sell them I keep playing them.
On the other hand, I think the market will be flooded with high end archtops in the next 30 years. And not many buyers around. Yet. But todays younger generation will get interested eventually.
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06-21-2019 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
When I observe those pie in the sky priced guitars I immediately think - for display purposes only, not for sale
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While I'm rather a 'bottom feeder' when it comes to archtops(always seeking mid- to lower level vintage Epiphones or Gibsons, usually those needing repair: I'm a luthier), I certainly have the same reaction as the Deacon: the posted prices often just seem ridiculous: the needed repairs are sometimes obvious, and often not well described(or even mentioned!). I need to be careful about what I pay, because any needed work can quickly make the purchase unrealistic, if I ever hope, or choose, to sell the repaired, well set-up instrument.
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Think about it. Once upon a time, the guitar market more or less meant archtop guitars. Then, that market crashed when jazz and swing faded (after the 1940s). By the 1950s, you couldn't really give away an archtop guitar. However, by the end of the 1960s, and certainly by the 1980s, the archtop guitar market bounced back as the rock and roll generation of players searched for something to play other than pentatonic blues box-based riffs.
Now, those players (my generation) are headed for the shuffleboard courts in Florida. The archtop guitar market is flat, flat, flat. On top of this, fewer people in the follow on generations are guitar players than was the case with the "Boomers." However, those who do play will still arrive at the point of frustration with the pentatonic blues box. I predict echoes of Boomer archtop demand ahead. Maybe it won't be quite the stuff of the Boomer peak demand, but the children of the Boomers are soon to hit their peak earning years and will have the discretionary funds to fuel their explorations of "meta-pentatonic" music.
Don't panic sell your archtop collection just yet.
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Archtop guitars are not popular with very many people or players anymore. Even most Jazz guitar players play thinlines or solid body instruments nowadays, and have for quite a while.
Very rare to see a pro player with a carved top as there main guitar. Music is so much louder and traveling with a carved top is problematic as well.
Even John Pizzarelli uses laminate instruments, for this very reason.
So with the older generation who values these instruments dying out, prices are falling. Also there are a plethora of newer luthier out there producing great instruments as well. And the used market is becoming saturated with a lot of great choices.
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On eBay, a ton of sellers who spent waaaay too much for a custom shop Gibby are trying in vain to recoup their overpayment. I can't count the number of custom shop Byrdlands at asking prices of $7k and more. You'd have to be out of your mind to buy one of those when you can get a true narrow-nut, pre-'74 Byrdie for around $3500.
The other category of overpriced sellers I've seen all seem to be from Japan. I'm sure it costs a lot to get a Gibson to Japan, but once you do, you're never gonna get that duty back from a US buyer.
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There seems to be a discrepancy here...there’s no market for archtops...and prices are too high...
“Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore, it’s too crowded”—Yogi Berra.
Collecting is a true market economy....supply vs demand. Yes maybe someone’s sitting on something, but for enough money they’ll sell.
My experience with collecting other antique items is that there’s always someone with more time and energy to do the legwork to get the good stuff, and they command the high prices and drive prices upward. That’s just life.
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Jabs,
You raise an interesting point--very tactfully/humorously. When you look online, however, all you are seeing is asking prices. They aren't strike prices, so we don't learn too much from them.
OTOH, what we do know is that the companies like Gibson, Heritage, etc., aren't offering archtops for sale at the present time. (Heritage shows an Eagle Classic on its site, but indicates that it is unavailable.) This tells us something about these companies' marketing staff's impressions of the market for archtop guitars, no?
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Reverb seems to be full of people who bought high and want to sell high.
I purchased one guitar through Reverb, a chambered FSR Tele. It turned out the truss rod adjustment was stripped. Fortunately the seller accepted a return.
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I see ETSY is up 4% this morning. Just looked at the PE ratio. Market must be counting on some real growth.
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Does David Kalt still own CME? Will he be riding into the sunset at Reverb? Will Reverb and CME be breaking up their relationship?
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Originally Posted by Greentone
Originally Posted by Greentone
Originally Posted by Greentone
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Fascinating to watch where the real money abides.
A tiny stake in MANY online transactions seems better than actual involvement in hands-on transactions through a store. Obvious enough I suppose - in retrospect.
My transactions (about 50/50 - buy/sell) on Reverb have all gone extremely smoothly. I had a few questions (not problems) and always got 100% perfect info and support from the staff at Reverb.
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I assume that CME does far more business thorough Reverb than through their thankfully-limited Fake-O NGD posts here - which I have not noticed for quite a while.
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Etsy has made their own online shop worse and worse - making changes , it seems - just to make changes! They haven't made selling easier, just harder and less fun. My wife is getting out of selling on Etsy
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I see what you mean. I've never been on the Etsy site but quiclkly checked it out... it has a relevance problem in the search function, and the number of displayed items is skinny, not as bad as or repetitive as Reverbs so maybe the coders at Reverb will get "enlightened" meaning fired! :-)
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I've found it difficult to find something on Etsy if you don't know the seller, and don't use the exact search terms required. Mostly I get misses, very few hits. On Reverb I get whatever has been bumped, over and over.
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On Reverb I always change the default sort from "Best Match" (dumb) to one of the others. If it's something I look for regularly, I select "Most Recent."
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Although having less than 20 transactions there I felt more comfortable buying items through Reverb than most any place else. My last transaction, last year, was a large 70 lb. tube amp. Like other items purchased from Reverb, the amp was very conservatively rated. When it arrived the amp appeared brand new.
I've been an Etsy member for what 7 or so years? At one time it was known as a place for artists to list their wares. Sounds like Etsy has done okay for themselves. Well all the best to them and their Reverb ventures.
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i've had the opposite response on reverb and their support has been spotty. Recently I bought some pickups which ended up not being delivered in time for me to get them before a vacation and the vacation return took me beyond the 7 day evaluation period so I asked reverb to extend the 7 days to 9 days so I could ensure the pickups were ok. Their response was that they would not and advised me to have a neighbor open the package and check that the pickups worked.
EFF THAT!
OTOH, most of the purchases on reverb have gone smoothly but they have their heads up their asses on some policies. Another example, I bought a guitar that had a twisted neck. Took it to my repairman who wrote up an evaluation and repair estimate and returned the guitar for a refund. He even called the repairman to verify and ended up calling him a liar. This guy worked on benson's guitars!
The seller posted negative feedback saying I lied about the issues and was just returning it because I didn't like it. Presented with the evidence, reverb declined to remove his feedback. In similar situations on ebay regarding revenge feedback, ebay will remove it.
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I don't want the thread to reduce to a horror story exchange, but there are ALWAYS businesses that will have a confrontation from time to time, and auction sites are especially dicey because there's only the written word between parties and delivery services to document the transaction.
That said, I have nearly two thousand Ebay transactions since around 1996 and not one bad one, while with 29 transactions on Reverb and one bad which I had to big hammer handle myself because I got laissez faire attitude (no help) from Reverb.
I still do business on Reverb, but only when the same item is not available on Ebay.
The concept of Reverb is unique and valuable to players, I wish them success.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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I bought my Hamer through Reverb without issue, but it’s been my only transaction so far.
There’s a new startup called Mercari, but i DO NOT RECOMMEND THEM. I refuse to do business with a company this unethical.
I was just about to list my Gibson LS-6 on Reverb when a classical forum I use said Mercari was running a special with no fees on musical instrument sales. Sold it in less than 24 hours. Took THREE WEEKS TO GET MY CASH. They won’t release money to the seller until the buyer gives his feedback. Then they dn’t tell you until AFTER they need to verify your identity with photo ID submissions that you are really you. Despite using the campera on my iPad Pro that gave perfectly legible photos (my bank app loves it for check deposits), Mercari kept flagging my submissions to avoid approving it, all the meanwhile sending me three or four emails a day urging me to spend my money through them to buy another product.
From now on I’ll only sell locally through Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace, so I can work with the person face to face.
Transcriber wanted
Today, 04:35 PM in Improvisation