Use of amp reverb when recording?

[Babaluma]

Hi all,
I am going to do some recording in a small studio and was interested what others use of amp reverb was? The room is quite dry and dead but warm sounding. In general do you record using a bit of the amps reverb (it is a Fender amp with a spring) for feel and ambience or just use the rooms natural sound, or add later in post? We will record live but with baffles there is quite a lot of separation to tweak each sound if needed. It is a bass, piano, guitar trio and we are not necessarily looking for a traditional sound but thought I may get some tips from you all?

Btw if I don't reply immediately I am busy with work and not being rude but I will read any response and appreciate it! I have so maybe threads book marked from here that I treasure and refer to constantly

[AllanAllen]

I would skip amp reverb and effects, but I really like the King Cole or Oscar Peterson Trio sound. So very traditional...

[Jim Soloway]

I like amp reverb but I never use it when I'm recording. The problem with recording with amp reverb is that it eliminates all of your post production alternatives. If it sounds good then all is well but if it doesn't you really can't get rid of it and you're limited in how you can alter it without damaging the rest of your guitar sound. Using a reverb plugin after the fact, you can choose the reverb that works best with the recording and shape in a way that fits the rest of the recording.

[Donnd]

Monitor with some reverb as you track the guitar part but do not print the effect. As Jim said, you are stuck with that reverb and most DAWs have many better reverb options. Also when mixing with other instruments, a good engineer will want to make all the tracks seem like they are in the same virtual acoustic space.

[rpjazzguitar]

It's possible to monitor through your amp (with its reverb) while recording dry. So, you hear what you want to hear and you can add whatever you like in post.

I tried that, then tried recording on two tracks, one wet one dry. Then, I stopped bothering and I just record with some reverb. Can't remove it later, but I never wanted to any way.

[pauln]

There are three domains of reverb; what's necessary to playing well, what's necessary to sounding good/appropriate, and what's necessary to recording/mixing. All three are different perspectives regarding how to manage a live room with some natural ambiance (no amp reverb), a dead room with some amp reverb added (just a little), and certain special usually slow tunes that feature more reverb.

Do you need to hear some reverb in order to play your best?
Does the recording need some reverb to sound the way you want to hear it?
Do any of the tunes you record feature a long reverb?

These questions should be answered independently in order to determine how to set up for recording.

[Christian Miller]

Hi all,
I am going to do some recording in a small studio and was interested what others use of amp reverb was? The room is quite dry and dead but warm sounding. In general do you record using a bit of the amps reverb (it is a Fender amp with a spring) for feel and ambience or just use the rooms natural sound, or add later in post? We will record live but with baffles there is quite a lot of separation to tweak each sound if needed. It is a bass, piano, guitar trio and we are not necessarily looking for a traditional sound but thought I may get some tips from you all?

Btw if I don't reply immediately I am busy with work and not being rude but I will read any response and appreciate it! I have so maybe threads book marked from here that I treasure and refer to constantly

My advice is use a splitter - take a DI out from the guitar, send the other signal to the amp and mic the amp. That way you can always reamp or use a plug-in if you don’t like the miced sound.

I think it’s helpful to have a good sound in the room. Often on cans things can be VERY dry and off putting. The guitar’s sound in the room will affect how you play.


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[ccroft]

The splitter is a great idea. Not sure why we didn't do that back when. Maybe because re-amping wasn't a thing? I got into arguments with engineers and producers, who are by nature control freaks.

Me: 'Every gig I play and every guitarist I see live has a little bit of reverb as part of the guitar sound. It goes out of the amp and becomes part of the ambience of the actual room. Why can't it be in the virtual room?'

If you're talking Dick Dale levels then yeah it might be trouble. 10 years from now you might hate it the way I hate the big chorus I liked in the 80's.

I've never been happy hearing myself in the cans. One on one off kinda guy. I still prefer to play the amp in the room.

[Alter]

When I record stuff at home with plugins and multi effects sure, I use reverb at the DAW, you can do sound design and make intricate recordings that way. But for live music that gets recorded in a room I always play with the exact sounds í would use in the music, then the engineer makes sure they get recorded correctly.

Many reasons for that. The sound is more real, since the more digital stuff you use the worse your sound gets. No option anxiety trying to select reverbs afterwards. You get to decide what the sound is, not someone else who, even having the best intentions, will probably make worse decisions then the players will.

Generally it makes for a better and more natural recording in my experience to record everything as it sounds and do minimal meddling afterwards.

[vintagelove]

If it's a great sounding amp verb, like an old fender long tank, yes. But, turn it down a little bit, as if you compress later, it will bring the reverb out a bit more. A little goes a long way.

[Babaluma]

Thank you for all the helpful advice, much appreciated!

[JazzNote]

Hi all,
I am going to do some recording in a small studio and was interested what others use of amp reverb was? The room is quite dry and dead but warm sounding. In general do you record using a bit of the amps reverb (it is a Fender amp with a spring) for feel and ambience or just use the rooms natural sound, or add later in post? We will record live but with baffles there is quite a lot of separation to tweak each sound if needed. It is a bass, piano, guitar trio and we are not necessarily looking for a traditional sound but thought I may get some tips from you all?

Btw if I don't reply immediately I am busy with work and not being rude but I will read any response and appreciate it! I have so maybe threads book marked from here that I treasure and refer to constantly

I found that the recorded guitar sound is better when adding a bit of reverb on the amp. Not as much as i would use on a gig, just a carefully selected minimal amount, so that for mixing it won't disturb when adding the studio reverb.

[rpjazzguitar]

I play through a pedal board when I'm recording. I've tried it with and without reverb and I prefer it with reverb. I have to be careful not to use too much -- because you can't remove it.

It sounds better than the plug-ins I have in Reaper. Better plug-ins are probably available, but I haven't bothered with them.

I monitor with my usual amp so that what I'm hearing while I record is my usual sound. It has its own reverb, but that's just for monitoring, it's not recorded.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

One thing to consider is how reverb influences groove and tempo.

The first time I became aware of this was at the age of ten when visiting a couple in Rothenburg ob der Tauber who were very good friends of my family. The man was the retired organist of the city's main church and would take me with him to a small church outside of town where he would still practice and he would explain to me the old-school church organ and show me how it worked. And he would tell me the story of him having to play a concert once in an old church in Lübeck with a 10 second natural reverb and how everything became blurry and indistinct and he could not hear himself playing properly.

Later when studying audio engineering I was told how to adapt artificial reverb length to the tempo of a song. IIRC in the (highly recommended) book "Mixing with your mind" (best book on audio engineering ever) Michael Paul Stavrou (who had been George Martin's assistant) dedicates a whole chapter on how to set up an artificial reverb.

And even later I got to know some students of the genius conductor Sergiu Celibidache. An important part of Celi's musical phenomenology was to adopt he tempo to the room acoustics of a concert hall and being aware of how overtones developed in the room and giving notes enough space for their overtones to develop in the right way.

So take care of the amount and length of the reverb fitting the tempo of the tune you are playing.

(There is an anecdote of Celi practicing with then young star violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter as soloist with the Munich Philharmonic. She asked him if it was possible to play a certain piece faster (at the mechanical tempo she was used to). But Celi insisted in playing "at the correct [because of room acoustics] tempo". Mutter asked him "But maestro, can't we play it at least a little faster?". His answer "So young and already making compromises!" hurt her so bad that she quit and he had to find another soloist. BTW Celi would conduct without sheet music and it would take him only a few hours to look at a philharmonic score and learn it by rote.)

[JazzNote]

I play through a pedal board when I'm recording. I've tried it with and without reverb and I prefer it with reverb. I have to be careful not to use too much -- because you can't remove it.

When i record i usually plug the guitar straight into the amp. The pickupsound itself has a tendency to sound a little harsh and i don't want to darken it much by turning down the treble, leaving options open. EQ's on the DAW are much more efficient than the knobs on the guitar or amp. I feel that the right (small) amount of reverb from the amp smoothens the sound enough, and still leaves the option of adding studio quality reverb to the mix. I'm talking about reverbs of amps like AI Clarus or Mambo which are of good quality and of course in the mix i would use just something between 4% and 10% of wet signal, depending on the reverb plugin i'm using. A while ago i recorded my L5 for a duo production without amp reverb, but even with professional plugins (Waves, WaveArts, Lexicon etc.) i found no way to trim the sound to my full satisfaction.

[Cunamara]

There is recording and there is recording. If you're just recording yourself at home and you like the sound of the reverb in your amp better, use that. Bearing in mind, as mentioned up thread, that you can't dial it back later if you decide you want less reverb; you'll have to re-record.

But if you're recording with a band and you insist on using your own reverb sound, then when the rest of the band has reverb mixed in by the engineer, your sound is not going to match that of the rest of the band. The point of reverb is to sound like you're in a live room, but it's gonna sound like you're playing in two different rooms at the same time. Or, even worse, the studio's reverb gets added to the whole mix on top of your own, giving you a suboptimal sound at best.

When I have recorded with a combo in the studio, I have recorded dry- just like all the other instruments are also dry. We had some reverb in the headphones while playing, which was not being recorded; in mixing and mastering, reverb was added to the group as a combo so that everything sounded unified.

[JazzNote]

But if you're recording with a band and you insist on using your own reverb sound, then when the rest of the band has reverb mixed in by the engineer, your sound is not going to match that of the rest of the band. The point of reverb is to sound like you're in a live room, but it's gonna sound like you're playing in two different rooms at the same time.

There's more than one point to reverb. The amp's reverb is supposed to shape the tone of the guitar, the "live room reverb" as you point out to add the feel of beeing in the same room. It's possible to use the second on top of the first. To my ears utilizing both gives me the best results, but it's crucial to know the ideal dry/wet ratio for the amp reverb, so that it does not get in the way of the reverb added later in the mix.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

You could also parallel record a dry D.I. signal from your guitar on a second track and re-amp that later.

[GuyBoden]

I like to mix in some multi-tap delay, but I can over use it.

[princeplanet]

If it's a great sounding amp verb, like an old fender long tank, yes. But, turn it down a little bit, as if you compress later, it will bring the reverb out a bit more. A little goes a long way.

^^^ This. Depending on the amount and "shape" of the compression, recorded reverb tails can be greatly amplified. Valve amps will compress or limit your transients, but maybe consider some subtle compression into the amp if it's needed. Otherwise back off on the amp's reverb and add it in post if required.

Some kinds of amp reverb can sound more organic than added digital reverb, but adding reverb to a band, as has been mentioned, can help unify the illusion of ambience by making every instrument sound like it's coming from the same space.