Art Tube V3 preamp - should I get one?

[0zoro]

Rob recently announced he is staying off the forum for a while.

That is a shame, not only am I interested in the gizmo itself, I enjoy Rob´s input and take on life in general.

[Stevebol]

Does the tube glow when it's warmed up? Or is the voltage so low that it isn't very noticeable?

I ask because I can't see any evidence of a glow in mine, but changing the voicings definitely changes the characteristics of the sound. I can see a kind of reflection from the VU meter, but I can't see that the tube is actually glowing...

I have the V3. It's my understanding the Art has a 'starved plate' design. Low voltage going to the tube. High voltage is the reason tube preamps designed to be driven if needed are so expensive.
The Kingsley Maiden and Page are very good at it. The Page can go from clean to mild drive. 'Low gain'.
A big deal is made of Dumble amp drive. The saturation is very smooth. Some of the Kingsley pedals and some others can do that well.

There's a lot of hype about 12AX7 tubes but the Art does what it's supposed to do. Add gain and quiet tube mojo. I like it as vocal preamp. I might put it in the FX loop of my amp modeler for guitar.

[Ukena]

So I took the Studio V3 apart (slightly separated the top from the bottom) so that I could have a clearer look at the tube. Plugged in the power adapter, and could see that the tube has a very slight glow at the top. I didn't notice it at first, until I unplugged it; then I could see that a very slight glow dimmed much more slowly than the VU meter, which shut off immediately.

[RJVB]

BTW, careful with taking these apart! In the ones I've seen (Art Tube MP and the older Studio model), the gain pots are surface-mounted to a daughter board which is held to the cover only by said pots, and connected to the main circuit with very stiff ribbon cables. I'm pretty certain I broke on of the connections of the output gain pot when I struggled to open the 2nd unit I got (which "fortunately" arrived with a horribly low SNR so was refunded).

[Ukena]

Yes, I'm used to taking things apart gently (done lots of laptop and tower computer excavations in my prior life as a computer tech). Those ribbon cables are extremely stiff, and too much effort in the separation could make the device unusable. But as I said, I only slightly separated the top from the bottom, just enough to see the tube...

[msankowski]

This discussion inspired me to look for a new guitar tube preamp for recording. However, I was looking not for the starved plate but for a high voltage tube circuit.

There are some old rack units, mostly aimed at overdrive and rock guitar, with some clean patches. These are Marshall JMP-1 and ADA mp1/ mp2.
There are also some new rack and pedal units, but even more focused on rock.

Finally I found a pedal tube preamp dedicated to a clean guitar sound. This is Two Notes Le Clean preamp.
It has 12ax7 tube, as the Art preamp discussed earlier, but uses 200V internal voltage for the tube. It has unbalanced line level and balanced 600ohm DI outputs, and headphone output. It comes with a license for 20 cabinet/speaker models for using within the Torpedo Wall of Sounds VST from Two Notes. There are some nice demos on YouTube to look at.

My unit is on its way. Have you ever used or heard this preamp?

[msankowski]

[msankowski]

The above demo uses Le Lead, another pedal from the same family. From what I have read about them, all three have same clean channel, while difference exists in the "overdriven" channel.

[bleakanddivine]

I guess the Art Tube MP is intended primarily for recording use, but I have used mine recently for a gig or two and it's worked well. I could do with a touch of reverb in some rooms - is there any similar preamp that includes a controllable reverb, would be nice if that was all available in one box?

[0zoro]

I guess the Art Tube MP is intended primarily for recording use, but I have used mine recently for a gig or two and it's worked well. I could do with a touch of reverb in some rooms - is there any similar preamp that includes a controllable reverb, would be nice if that was all available in one box?

If you are looking for a top there is of course the Quilter, both the UK and the US, if you can find one. The Toneblock 202 which seems also to be scarce is very nice, plenty of power and has reverb but perhaps not quite the step you were looking for.

[pcjazz]

I guess the Art Tube MP is intended primarily for recording use, but I have used mine recently for a gig or two and it's worked well. I could do with a touch of reverb in some rooms - is there any similar preamp that includes a controllable reverb, would be nice if that was all available in one box?

Have a look at Milkman.

[RJVB]

How do you guys get the ART Tube's output into a computer?

[grahambop]

How do you guys get the ART Tube's output into a computer?

I plug it into the input of a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface (which goes into the computer via a USB connection).

[RJVB]

I plug it into the input of a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface (which goes into the computer via a USB connection).

Via a jack cable or via XLR? I think I read somewhere that the 2i2 switches automatically to an appropriate setting, or do you set it up yourself? How do you set the gains on the V3?

I plugged into a lowly SoundBlaster Play! 3 interface before (or directly into my iPhone for video lessons) but just got a Behringer UMC204HD as a more audiophile replacement. 1st thing I noticed was much lower input signals (even with the mic connected directly through the UMC btw). The plan had been to bypass the UMC's preamp using the insert feature but that obliges me to crank up the input gain on the ART to over 80% after which I still have to amplify the recorded signal. Looks like an input impedance thing; the issue goes away when I use one of the main inputs switched to "INST". That toggles the input impedance to 1MOhm (or some multiple thereof); I'm still trying to figure out if that's really all it does.

[grahambop]

I think I posted a photo of my setup somewhere in this thread - anyway here it is again. I use a short jack cable between them.

On the Focusrite I make sure the INST switch is off, this switches it to accept the input from the Art Tube as a Line input.

[RJVB]

On the Focusrite I make sure the INST switch is off, this switches it to accept the input from the Art Tube as a Line input.

Thanks! I use(d) almost the same gains on my Tube MP (37% output gain instead of your 50%). I did swap the stock tube for a TungSol but apart from that I think the effective gains must be very similar.

I don't know exactly what the INST switch does on the Focusrite, but why do you turn it off and have you checked what happens if you turn it on?

I see I don't have the input impedance of my UMC's line input but it's 1MOhm for the instrument in (3kOhm for the mic input). I see max input levels of -4dBu for mic, 20dBu for line-in and -3dBu for inst. in. Assuming those all go into the same circuit it stands to reason that the same signal will come across a lot lower on the line-in than on the inst. in - and maybe the ART's output amp could even collapse if connected to a really low impedance input? BTW, the insert return impedance is 10kOhm.

[grahambop]

I just did what it recommends in the Focusrite manual, i.e. INST on is for direct guitar signals (for example), INST off is for Line signals. When you power it on, it always defaults to INST off anyway.

It works perfectly for me with the settings in my photo.

As I recall, with INST on, the input was a bit too loud.

[Ukena]

RJVB, whenever possible, I try to use the XLR outputs from any preamps or DI into the audio interface of my computer. In my case, that interface is an Apogee Duet 3. I select the mic input – I have choices for inst, mic, and +4dBu or -10dBV (both for pro-level equipment) on the Apogee – not on the actual device, but in the software setup.

I'm not at home right now, but later today I'll hook up my ART Tube V3 and see what the levels are like.

Looking at the Behringer 204HD, I would use an XLR cable from the ART to the 204HD, select the Line input, and make sure you have the Pad button off.

But as I say, I'm not at the computer right now to see if the ART preamp just has a low-level output.

[RJVB]

Looking at the Behringer 204HD, I would use an XLR cable from the ART to the 204HD, select the Line input, and make sure you have the Pad button off.

But as I say, I'm not at the computer right now to see if the ART preamp just has a low-level output.

I have a hunch that Line/INST only applies to the jack input, not to the XLR which I assume is the Mic input. That's the only explanation I see for not having a "Mic" position on the input selector. I also don't have a 2nd XLR-XLR cable, so to test using this cable I'd have to hook my Loar to the ART instead of my microphone, which may change everything.

It would be strange if the ART preamp had a lower output level than a microphone, or if the output were a lot lower on the jack than on the XLR output.

[grahambop]

Specs page from the manual:

[RJVB]

So the gain *is* higher on the XLR output, more than 4x if I'm reading this correctly?

I used a XLR->TRS (3.5") with the SoundBlaster and my phone, but I suppose I can experiment with one of those 3.5->6.35 TRS adapters of which I have a bunch. The SoundBlaster also has a mono mic input so I should get the same configuration (w.r.t the "ring" contact).

Do the output impedance figures explain anything?

[grahambop]

Don’t ask me, I haven’t a clue what any of it means!

[RJVB]

Don’t ask me, I haven’t a clue what any of it means!

According to this post, output impedance should be as low as possible:
Output impedance of the preamp and effect on interconnect cables and sound - Amplifiers - Lenco Heaven Turntable Forum

[msankowski]

I was using UMC404HD and UMC1820 some time ago. Manual is ambiguous here. In your UMC204HD you have two combos that provide:
- balanced XLR mic level input (low impedance)
- switchable balanced TRS line level input (low impedance) that also accepts unbalanced TS instrument level (hi impedance)

In your ART you have:
- balanced XLR line level output, and
- unbalanced TS line level output

Given the above I would recommend using a balanced XLR-TRS cable going from XLR out in the ART into TRS (jack) input in your UMC204HD with the switch in "line" position.

Unbalanced TS into TS would work as well, with switch in "line" position.

[RJVB]

In your UMC204HD you have two combos that provide:
- balanced XLR mic level input (low impedance)
- switchable balanced TRS line level input (low impedance) that also accepts unbalanced TS instrument level (hi impedance)
...

Given the above I would recommend using a balanced XLR-TRS cable going from XLR out in the ART into TRS (jack) input in your UMC204HD with the switch in "line" position.

Thanks! I think that's the XLR-TRS cable I have (to be verified if there's not shunting going on in the XLR connecter). But where did you find this information?!