Art Tube V3 preamp - should I get one?

**Rob MacKillop** · 11-28-2021, 03:54 PM

That was great, Graham, and your guitar sounds beautiful. Nice playing too, as ever. I hope you guys can actually meet up someday.

**Ukena** · 11-28-2021, 04:07 PM

That sounds terrific, and fun! Your guitar sounds great, gb, although we have no idea how much of the sound is attributable to the ART.

So, you two boppers, how do you guys go about this? Do you each record independently to the same backing track, with who-comps-when previously arranged, and then sew the two versions together? Or does one of you record his whole piece with backing track, and then the other just plays with that video, and sew those two videos together? Inquiring minds are curious, that's all...

**grahambop** · 11-28-2021, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

That was great, Graham, and your guitar sounds beautiful. Nice playing too, as ever. I hope you guys can actually meet up someday.

Thanks Rob.

Who knows, maybe one day, just a bit of water in between us!

Dutchbopper · 11-28-2021, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ukena

That sounds terrific, and fun! Your guitar sounds great, gb, although we have no idea how much of the sound is attributable to the ART.

So, you two boppers, how do you guys go about this? Do you each record independently to the same backing track, with who-comps-when previously arranged, and then sew the two versions together? Or does one of you record his whole piece with backing track, and then the other just plays with that video, and sew those two videos together? Inquiring minds are curious, that's all...

In our previous duet I played my 175 through an amp. Graham used his ART. I have used an ART for several years too but went back to miking my amp somehow. I do use the ART to plug my mike in so that the miked sound of the amp is warmed up too. So it's still on every recording ...

The difference between ART and the amp is the lows I think but ....

You can hear the difference (or not haha) between the ART and an amp in the vid below.

DB

**grahambop** · 11-28-2021, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ukena

That sounds terrific, and fun! Your guitar sounds great, gb, although we have no idea how much of the sound is attributable to the ART.

So, you two boppers, how do you guys go about this? Do you each record independently to the same backing track, with who-comps-when previously arranged, and then sew the two versions together? Or does one of you record his whole piece with backing track, and then the other just plays with that video, and sew those two videos together? Inquiring minds are curious, that's all...

Thanks! My 175 records quite well direct, but it definitely sounds a bit better with the ART, I tested that out when I got it. The gadget definitely adds a bit of depth and warmth to the recorded sound.

We always agree some kind of arrangement beforehand, i.e. how many choruses, who comps and solos when, etc. I would say we generally use the second method you described. In this case it allowed me to match the head melody accurately to how DB played it. So DB sent me a bass backing track with his parts recorded on it. I played to it, sent him my video and a separate WAV of just my guitar track, he then matched it all up at his end and produced the split-screen video.

Where we’ve done a pure guitar duet (no backing), I just record my stuff and send it to him to add his part and join up the videos. I always send a separate WAV with my audio in it, so he can properly mix the sound etc.

**Christian Miller** · 11-28-2021, 04:58 PM

Lovely stuff guys. I like the blend, sounds very contrapuntal….

Thunk, moderate to good.

**grahambop** · 11-28-2021, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ukena

That sounds terrific, and fun! Your guitar sounds great, gb, although we have no idea how much of the sound is attributable to the ART.

This is a recording I made a few years back with my 175 recorded direct, no tube or amp sims, just a bit of reverb added. So the ART doesn’t make a massive difference. But I can hear that the direct sound is a little more hard/brittle sounding, whereas with the ART it is a bit warmer/softer.

**lammie200** · 11-28-2021, 06:27 PM

I have an excellent condition Art Tube MP Studio V3 with the box if anyone wants one. PM me and we will discuss a price.

**0zoro** · 11-29-2021, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Okay, it has arrived with a power lead but no patch lead to connect to the Scarlett, which is understandable but not expected.

So, please recommend a very short patch lead. Keep in mind I know nothing at all about this stuff, so a direct UK link would be appreciated.

Rob, I have purchased a soldering iron, microphone cable and contacts. I cut cable and solder the contacts to the length needed. If thats not really in your game plan a short patch used for pedal boards should do the trick if the units are placed close together, like on top of one another.

**Rob MacKillop** · 11-29-2021, 08:00 AM

What’s a soldering iron? Just kidding!

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 11-29-2021, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

What’s a soldering iron?

Silly Rob - you use it to get the wrinkles out of your solder.

**Christian Miller** · 11-29-2021, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

This is a recording I made a few years back with my 175 recorded direct, no tube or amp sims, just a bit of reverb added. So the ART doesn’t make a massive difference. But I can hear that the direct sound is a little more hard/brittle sounding, whereas with the ART it is a bit warmer/softer.

I'm always struck by how good 175's sound direct like that; you can plug them straight into the PA and they rock (wasn't that what Joe Pass used to do?) Live you could get away without reverb even.

**pingu** · 11-29-2021, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller;[URL="tel:1161568"

1161568[/URL]]I'm always struck by how good 175's sound direct like that; you can plug them straight into the PA and they rock (wasn't that what Joe Pass used to do?) Live you could get away without reverb even.

yes I totally agree ,
for a clean jazz sound a 175 type guitar ...ie a laminate box with a humbucker in the neck

you can plug straight into a flat PA channel and it’s all there , it’s fine

I usually go via a pre-amp just so I
can EQ it a bit and maybe get a bit of
crunch to the sound if I need it

but its not necessary

**0zoro** · 12-02-2021, 12:37 PM

This is a late question. I have a Quilter amp, should I put an ART in the signal path what type of sound could I expect? I have a preconception of an overdrive sound that sounds hard and shrill, none of which have I heard in the posts above, quite the contrary. so, what could I expect? Any suggestions?

**RJVB** · 12-02-2021, 12:50 PM

I've found that you can get it to distort if you crank up the gains enough and the input is strong enough. But mostly it will just add some warmth and a bit of compression.

**0zoro** · 12-02-2021, 03:48 PM

Is this put in front of the amp or behind? or both? Different effects, but ?

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 12-02-2021, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by 0zoro

This is a late question. I have a Quilter amp, should I put an ART in the signal path what type of sound could I expect? I have a preconception of an overdrive sound that sounds hard and shrill, none of which have I heard in the posts above, quite the contrary. so, what could I expect? Any suggestions?

I"m still waiting for my Superblock (now nearing the end of its 3rd month of backorder from MF), so I can't yet answer that first hand. Driving my Microblock, it adds a bit of tubey warmth that makes the MB sound more than a little like a Princeton to me. My ART MP is far from harsh or shrill. The tube is operated at a very low voltage and is a zero gain stage in all the ART preamps. It just adds a hint of the even order harmonic distortion characteristic of a tube's output, which is inherently what tube lovers call "warm". But it won't clip the signal when operating within its parameters in that circuit.

The overall gain of the MP is +6 dB with the gain control fully down and +40 with it fully up. So you can really overdrive your amplifier with it if you want to do so. But what you'll hear is the overdriven sound of your amplifier, not the ART. And if you overdrive the ART's input by using a pedal or the preamp / effects loop output of an amplifier, you can get it to sound pretty gritty - but it's not a pretty sound.

I'm using my ART tonight as the input stage for my guitar into our Leslie - I'm in the mood for a lush sound.

**Ukena** · 12-03-2021, 03:27 PM

Does the tube glow when it's warmed up? Or is the voltage so low that it isn't very noticeable?

I ask because I can't see any evidence of a glow in mine, but changing the voicings definitely changes the characteristics of the sound. I can see a kind of reflection from the VU meter, but I can't see that the tube is actually glowing...

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 12-03-2021, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ukena

Does the tube glow when it's warmed up? Or is the voltage so low that it isn't very noticeable?

I ask because I can't see any evidence of a glow in mine, but changing the voicings definitely changes the characteristics of the sound. I can see a kind of reflection from the VU meter, but I can't see that the tube is actually glowing...

The tube filament is glowing in mine and every other one like mine that I’ve seen. Remember that mine is an original MP, not a V3 - I’ve never looked inside a new one, although I can’t imagine that the operating parameters of the tube have been changed.

I brought mine to the club last night and ran my guitar through it into our Leslie 3300 to see how it would sound. With both input and output set at about 3 o’clock, it added a subtle OD that sounded pretty fine. I recorded the show on my TASCAM DR40x and will post a clip later today when I have time to edit a tune into a YouTube video.

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 12-03-2021, 05:35 PM

Here's an example of the best mild OD I could get from my ART preamp. The input and output knobs are both set at between 3 and 4 o'clock, tone controls are flat on the amp and overdrive is turned off.

I recorded my trio (g-b-d) at our weekly jazz show last night with my handheld TASCAM digital recorder sitting on a music stand at the front of the stage. Our audience is always into it, with direct interaction between us and them at all times. When asked, they almost always want us to experiment and last night was no exception - so we did. I ran my guitar's output directly into my ART MP preamp driving our Leslie 3300W amplifier and speaker cabinet with the rotors on slow speed. And we played some far out stuff, like So What in 3/4 and Come Rain or Come Shine as a funk tune. But here's a more traditional standard so you can hear the ART's effect with some drama:

**RJVB** · 12-03-2021, 07:52 PM

Sounds really nice, but without reference it's hard to appreciate the contribution of the ART Tube... Did you experiment with the tube setting?

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 12-03-2021, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by RJVB

Did you experiment with the tube setting?

I turned it up until the crunch was annoying - then I dialed it back a hair. The Leslie is cleaner than a Twin - the amp in a 3300 is a 300 WRMS solid state power stage behind a tube preamp. It has an overdrive circuit that can make it sound like an original B3 through an all tube Leslie, but it’s switchable. You can hear the phasing effect of the slowly turning rotors, like a Roland Jazz Chorus in 3D.

**0zoro** · 12-05-2021, 09:07 AM

What does Rob ay now after a few days of getting used to, fine tuning, and mastering the new gizmo?

**grahambop** · 12-05-2021, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by 0zoro

What does Rob ay now after a few days of getting used to, fine tuning, and mastering the new gizmo?

Rob recently announced he is staying off the forum for a while.

**grahambop** · 12-05-2021, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

I'm always struck by how good 175's sound direct like that; you can plug them straight into the PA and they rock (wasn't that what Joe Pass used to do?) Live you could get away without reverb even.

Each time I saw Joe Pass at Ronnie Scotts, he was never using an amp, so he must have been going into the sound system. He wasn’t using a 175 by then, this was in the 80s/90s.

I remember him complaining about the air-conditioning noise once, I think the club relented and turned it off (although it was a very warm summer evening!).