recording anxiety

[Jazzy_Dan]

That's very likely. That's why jazz is a study, it takes a l-o-t of know-how to get through complex jazz changes. The only consolation is the more one does the better one gets and the more one learns.

Ok so, just to make sure I understand the norm (in jazz), it's good to know a lot of what can be done on a song for: 1) Ensuring a smaller risk of making mistakes while performing 2)Making the song sound less rehearsed..............Isn't the element of improvisation something done normally? From what I understand jazzers like to leave a little room for improvisation when performing.

[destinytot]

Ok so, just to make sure I understand the norm (in jazz), it's good to know a lot of what can be done on a song for: 1) Ensuring a smaller risk of making mistakes while performing 2)Making the song sound less rehearsed..............Isn't the element of improvisation something done normally? From what I understand jazzers like to leave a little room for improvisation when performing.

I'm assuming you're talking about standards.

'The norm (in jazz)' may be too broad, but I'll stick my neck out and say that having some nuance and swing is a start - even when they're understated.

For me, the above starts (and ends) with the ability to state melody - even (or especially) when it's only inferred.

In my opinion, the idea of 'complex chord changes' is - for practical purposes - mostly myth. There's essential information and there's also salad; I believe that compelling navigation of changes is less about map-reading skills than about having abstracted reliable reference points to access on-the-fly. This process is necessarily subjective, but the evidence is objective and measurable.

And 'the norm' looks different when one considers the potential of the guitar as a polyphonic instrument.

[Jazzy_Dan]

I'm assuming you're talking about standards.

Actually I'm aware that standards are usually played with a degree of improvisation added on. I was talking more about original worked out arrangements

[destinytot]

Actually I'm aware that standards are usually played with a degree of improvisation added on. I was talking more about original worked out arrangements

Cool.

Speaking only for myself, I think my previous comment still applies.*

I also think originals can move the whole game from entertainment to the playing field of Art - provided one is willing to feel like a fool, a failure and a fraud. And that's if one's lucky. (I stress that I'm speaking only for myself, and I reiterate my initial comment in the thread.)

And I relate this to recording anxiety - because 'one is not necessarily the master of one's own house'.

*EDIT unless absence of nuance and swing is a defining characteristic of one's style

[Jazzy_Dan]

Cool.

Speaking only for myself, I think my previous comment still applies.*

I also think originals can move the whole game from entertainment to the playing field of Art - provided one is willing to feel like a fool, a failure and a fraud. And that's if one's lucky. (I stress that I'm speaking only for myself, and I reiterate my initial comment in the thread.)

And I relate this to recording anxiety - because 'one is not necessarily the master of one's own house'.

*EDIT unless absence of nuance and swing is a defining characteristic of one's style

Thanks

[ragman1]

Jazzy_Dan

I'm sorry, I can't agree with destinytot about complex changes being a myth. In fact, forgive me, but I think it's complete nonsense. If anyone thinks negotiating chord after chord that require different scales and harmonies, often not related or in the same key, is easy, think again, it's not.

Not only that, but you have to determine their functionality. It's to see how they follow each other in context. They're doing 'The Man I Love' over on Practical Standards at the moment. The chords in the verse cannot be played with the same scale, even with slight variations. Basically it goes, one bar at a time, from Eb then to Db, Ab, C alt, Gb, back to Eb again, and then either Bb alt or G alt depending. And the bridge varies between C natural and C harmonic or melodic. I know, I've been trying to do it!

There's not only that but you have to know how to play those harmonies in relation to the tune and the other chords so it blends properly. Plus licks and tricks etc. If it's a myth that this is just simple and plain sailing, even for a relatively skilled player, then I'm from a different planet. Sorry!

As regards improvising, if you consider all that, then it's obviously well nigh impossible to simply play the same thing over and over. It has to be - or at least sound like it - natural and unforced, not mechanical and stilted. It's got to be so well rehearsed that it comes out sounding as though it were easily done - but it's not. Of course it's not! Not over just one chorus, mind, but several.

That's why anybody trying to learn this stuff really has to start with simple tunes, and they're hard enough. No, don't underestimate the skill it takes. You'll soon realise why people adulate the great players who make it look so easy. A person could spend a lifetime trying to master all this and still be unsatisfied at the end.

But that's the fascination of it. If you want a challenge in life, take up jazz!

just to make sure I understand the norm (in jazz), it's good to know a lot of what can be done on a song for: 1) Ensuring a smaller risk of making mistakes while performing 2)Making the song sound less rehearsed.

That's absolutely correct. Not just good to know, but totally essential to know.

But don't let me put you off. It's not impossible, just tricky. And sometimes really tricky :-)

[destinytot]

I'm sorry, I can't agree with destinytot about complex changes being a myth. In fact, forgive me, but I think it's complete nonsense. If anyone thinks negotiating chord after chord that require different scales and harmonies, often not related or in the same key, is easy, think again, it's not.

Not only that, but you have to determine their functionality. It's to see how they follow each other in context. They're doing 'The Man I Love' over on Practical Standards at the moment. The chords in the verse cannot be played with the same scale, even with slight variations. Basically it goes, one bar at a time, from Eb then to Db, Ab, C alt, Gb, back to Eb again, and then either Bb alt or G alt depending. And the bridge varies between C natural and C harmonic or melodic. I know, I've been trying to do it!

Destinytot walks the talk. Here's that talk again - in bold letters, and in context.

In my opinion, the idea of 'complex chord changes' is - for practical purposes - mostly myth. There's essential information and there's also salad; I believe that compelling navigation of changes is less about map-reading skills than about having abstracted reliable reference points to access on-the-fly. This process is necessarily subjective, but the evidence is objective and measurable.

[ragman1]

Oh well, perhaps it was a bit complicated for me :-)

[destinytot]

Oh well, perhaps it was a bit complicated for me :-)

I think that's a reasonable and helpful comment, but it gets you bounced - I'm taking you off my ignore list.

Speaking for myself is more than a matter of principle to me - I'm saying so because I'm not prepared to pay the high cost of constant deference to others' competence and authority.

Having said that, I can think of several (relatively famous) 'jazz' educators whose approaches have in common a way of cutting through seemingly complex chord sequences.

Setting aside those who (in my view) simplify for reasons that I'm content to call suspect, I'm thinking of the kind of educators whose vision makes them bêtes noires, mavericks, and voices in the wilderness.

(I'll add the opinion that some of the best 'jazz' educators hardly talk about music at all - yet their students' ears expand nonetheless. I'm reminded of the final chapter of Jim Hall's book Exploring Jazz Guitar - a chapter entitled 'So...What Else Do You Know?', for the most part of which Jim Hall talks about painting and literature.)

What's complicated can be overwhelmingly difficult.

But it can usually be decomposed - down to small constituent parts.

And a 'low-resolution snapshot' of functional harmony in standards can be done on the spot: "Ah! One of these ...?" (I'm a fan of Home & Away, myself.)

I'll close with a pithy adage from Hal Galper video: "Always let the melody be your guide."

[Stringswinger]

Everyone needs to find a path that will allow them to improvise comfortably over whatever changes are in the tune. From my experience, each educator offers a different path, and a wise student will walk down as many paths as they can, until they discover the method that works for them.

Regarding complex changes:

a) Often charts have changes that are overly complex because some keyboard player who uses too many fingers all the time, wrote the chart

b) Larry Coryell once told me that the trick with complex changes is to know what the chords are doing in relation to each other and the melody and to pick the chords you want to address in your improvisation. This means treating some chords as "passing chords" and, to an extent, ignoring them. Doing so is a form of "side slipping" an important improvisational technique that every jazz player should be aware of. Larry also told me that if in any given night, he can play one great solo, it has been a great night.

c) One should always learn to crawl before they learn to walk. If you are not comfortable improvising over the changes to Blue Bossa, you have no business trying to play Body and Soul.

Jazz can be rocket science if you want, but doesn't have to be either. That said, if you are always looking for the easiest way to get through the changes, you will never reach your full potential. A challenge helps us reach our full potential.

[destinytot]

Larry also told me that if in any given night, he can play one great solo, it has been a great night.

If I replace the word 'great' with 'so-so', I can take encouragement from that.

[artcore]

same here, that little red light!.....the answer is to record more..a lot more....it will work for you.....as suggested......

[Jazzstdnt]

I'm reminded of the advice, "don't practice until you get it right; rather, practice until you can't get it wrong".

For me, the anxiety subsides when I have the music down cold, and then some. A click track helps me not to have to worry about my time. It's also comforting to know that many errors can be fixed by the engineer.

Same here, when I'm really ready I can nail it in 1-2 takes. Otherwise, well you know, multiple takes.

Avoiding coffee helps. A glass of wine or two - tops - can help you relax too.