Wider - a new (at least to me) plugin that broadens the sound stage

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Wider is a VST plugin from Polyverse Music that spreads out the sound image of a stereo recording and adds depth to the "soundstage". I downloaded it a while ago and have played with it a bit. But I never compared it to the unprocessed original before. I thought the track I captured while practicing yesterday would be ideal to see what Wider adds - so here it is.

I only widened the backing trio. The unprocessed guitar was close mic'ed in stereo with crossed cardioids centered on the junction between the dust cover and the cone. This location seems to pick up the full frequency range best, along with a mild phase array because of the different angulation and frequency spectrum of the two surfaces. This is my Eastman 810CE7 (KA floater, TI JS113s plus 075" Chrome 7th, Dunlop 204 pick) through my EG250 into a RE 10 cab:

unprocessed:



with Wider set to 120%:



I really like the effect. I can see where it could be overused, but it's pleasing for an ensemble in moderation. Done to a solo guitar, it makes the sound a bit bigger, much like Martin Taylor used to get from his stereo Yamaha archtop.

[edit] After listening carefully several times through headphones, I don’t like the fact that the piano is split into halves by this effect - it’s unnatural. Clearly, the way the recording was made is a major determinant of how well Wider renders a realistic sound stage. If a physically wide instrument like piano, vibes, or a drum kit is multi-mic’ed and the mics are panned to either side, the instrument will be split sonically. I don’t like this.

[John A.]

Have you compared this to any other stereo image plugins? There's one that comes with Garageband -- I've messed around with it a bit, but it has phasing artefacts that I thought made it not very useful. Looking at Wider's web page, they claim it doesn't do that. Does that seem true to you?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Have you compared this to any other stereo image plugins? There's one that comes with Garageband -- I've messed around with it a bit, but it has phasing artefacts that I thought made it not very useful. Looking at Wider's web page, they claim it doesn't do that. Does that seem true to you?

Yes it does. I think Wider does exactly what it's supposed to do. The problem I hear is that it separates everything, turning physically large instruments like pianos into two or more if there are separate mics over the ends (e.g. bass and treble strings, various drums in a kit etc).. Multimic'ed live recordings are often mixed to remove all spatial relationships among the original instruments, and programs like Wider just make that even more unpredictable (and often weird).

I checked it on a track I recorded with mid-side technique and it's unpredictable on that too, probably because of the phase effects that make mid-side usful. It seems to get the best results on simple stereo recordings made with 2 mics, where it just opens up the apparent width and depth of the group without shifting or distorting the apparent positions of the instruments. Many records made with this technique sound so good anyway that post-processing to increase width is unnecessary, e.g. the early direct-to-disc products. Sadly, it's the ones made with multiple mics and no regard for where those instruments would be in a live perfomance that need this effect the most. THose are the ones that respond with quirky things like a bass piano on the left and a treble piano on the right.

[John A.]

Yes it does. I think Wider does exactly what it's supposed to do. The problem I hear is that it separates everything, turning physically large instruments like pianos into two or more if there are separate mics over the ends (e.g. bass and treble strings, various drums in a kit etc).. Multimic'ed live recordings are often mixed to remove all spatial relationships among the original instruments, and programs like Wider just make that even more unpredictable (and often weird).

I checked it on a track I recorded with mid-side technique and it's unpredictable on that too, probably because of the phase effects that make mid-side usful. It seems to get the best results on simple stereo recordings made with 2 mics, where it just opens up the apparent width and depth of the group without shifting or distorting the apparent positions of the instruments. Many records made with this technique sound so good anyway that post-processing to increase width is unnecessary, e.g. the early direct-to-disc products. Sadly, it's the ones made with multiple mics and no regard for where those instruments would be in a live perfomance that need this effect the most. THose are the ones that respond with quirky things like a bass piano on the left and a treble piano on the right.

Interesting. Most of my recording is done direct, and I usually use stereo delay (on subtle settings) to try add space. It sounds like Wider wouldn't work so well for this sort of recording, but maybe I'll try it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Interesting. Most of my recording is done direct, and I usually use stereo delay (on subtle settings) to try add space. It sounds like Wider wouldn't work so well for this sort of recording, but maybe I'll try it.

It works very well with solo guitar recorded on stereo tracks. But I do think that reverb confuses it, and it treats different reverbs (plate, hall, spring etc) differently. So when I want a big Martin Taylor-like tone, I record dry and make a duplicate stereo track. Then I dial in varying amounts of Wider on one and a reverb of choice on the other before mixing them down to a master. It's the best of both worlds.

[Question]

@Nevershould........

yes, I have been using the first Wider version for several years and just realized that they have updated it with some features that I have wished for; thanks for that!

I have been using it primarily for my film music where the dialogue is always in the center channel in multi-channel and stereo mixes.

It helps to get things out of the middle channel and get the music to sit better with the dialogue. There have been a few times where the film mixers have negatively commented regarding mono compatibility. In music nowadays I don't think that mono compatibility is such a big issue. (please correct me if this is not true in streaming etc.)

If you are listening to a small stereo speaker where the L/R speakers are in the the same box without much separation, you might experience some phasing or other comb filter issues.

My experience is similar to yours, it depends on the material and how much of the effect you add.
I don't find it useful for full mixes, but for getting a melody instrument to be more audible without actually making it louder it works well. It seems to also have the effect of being less direct with more sense of distance.

As JohnA mentioned, you can use a stereo delay and delay one channel slightly, but in my experience I then perceive the delayed channel to be slightly quieter. In other words it sounds slightly panned to the non-delayed side.

This is my experience with the first version of Wider, I will try the 2.0 version. soon