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2 home/work laptop iterations ago, I cloned my own Kubuntu install onto a partition of the HP my wife used then, which was getting way too long in the tooth for MSWin. There's a company providing a free (but closed source) filesystem driver that can read and write journaled and compressed NTFS at better-than-native speeds, so I simply made here `$HOME/Desktop` a symlink to the equivalent of here MSWin home directory (and idem for a few other directories). She was already using LibreOffice, and only web browsers for the rest so she just had to learn a handful of new reflexes (and in practice, just call me of course
).
The Mac OS is a descendant of NextStep, which was already built around a Mach kernel and a BSD "userland". It is still "Darwin" (the underlying Unix with a Mach kernel; mostly open source) with a proprietary GUI/DE on top. I don't think there's a name for all the whole DE, just names for the various layers and APIs it is built of.
Originally Posted by tbeltrans
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03-09-2025 04:13 PM
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They have just different levels of respect for the user. You can barely move the mouse on windows without it asking "Are you sure?". Whereas on Linux you can do
cd / && sudo rm -rf *
It won't blink.
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The missus chuckled at this Originally Posted by rlrhett
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...and there goes your entire install. Are you sure? Originally Posted by Tal_175
Tony
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Last edited by GuyBoden; 03-10-2025 at 07:37 AM.
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I was a Unix "C" programmer for 15 years. When Win XP was terminated I installed Linux, and was certainly finished with Microsoft.
The current of version Windows is idiotic.
I just would love to have a program like GarageBand (simple and direct) on Linux. I have not found much for recording software.
Does anyone use Linux as DAW worksation? If so, what software do you use?
PD
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For DAWs in Linux, there is Reaper, Ardour, Audacity, and more. Audacity is not the most feature-rich, but it works for simpler recording. If you want pro level, Reaper may be the best choice, but I'm not really qualified to make definitive recommendations. I'm not a heavy user of DAWs.
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I'm planning to give Linux a try (maybe Mint?) when Windows 10 goes out of support in October 25. I also have some older Windows 7 machines which should be good candidates for a Linux install. I'll probably do a dual boot setup so I can run whatever Windows programs I need that won't run on Linux.
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I switched to Linux Mint when informed that MS was no longer supporting XP. Went with Linux Mint and have used it ever since.
There are 3 versions, Cinnamon, Mate and XFCE.
Cinnamon and Mate have various bells and whistles but XFCE is a slimmed down version for use on older computers. Therefore if you run it on a modern computer it runs like an F1 car and the homescreen looks like XP. Brilliant.
Installing there is no need for any coding. It even allows you to test drive from the install CD before you install.
Just couldn't be easier.
There is a software manager where you can download Mint apps.
And a Windows emulator so you can run Windows apps.
What's not to love
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Nice stories!
I'll try to postpone the move until it is certain that MS is going all in to... whatever that is.
Then gonna bump the thread after trying Linux out.
But thanks so much everybody.
It seems that each case is a bit different but most problems mostly solvable.
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Win7 was actually pretty good, and could still be set to use the old ("classic"?) theme that was so much easier on the eyes and the hardware. Originally Posted by RobbieAG
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Win 7 was great. I'd be owning a Mac or something if this didn't happen. XP was toying with my last straw for years. Then Win7 came in like a blue angel, always smiling. Originally Posted by RJVB
I blame Apple for this to happen. They got such a huge market just because MS had been so awful for so long. MS saw that and did a splendid job with Win7 to fight this.
Win 10 hasn't been so good. Weird random bugs happening again. And with Win11 - I honestly have no clue about their aim. It seems so off that they probably will just fade. Or whatever.
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To establish credentials:
I started programming professionally on Unix in 1984 - Apollo, first-gen Sun, Data General, Pyramid. My first PC-based Unix was PC/IX from IBM - released simultaneously with their version of MS-DOS and CPM. It was surprisingly good. I was an early adopter of Linux, at kernel version 0.12.
At home I’ve run Windows and Linux for years. I kept Windows for a long time, because there is no Linux driver for my RME interface, and none of the commercial plugins I use are available. I also like Visio.
A few months ago I had a catastrophic failure on Windows. I was able to save my data, fortunately. Then I had a not-quite-as-catastrophic failure on my Ubuntu installation (unlike Windows, this failure was my own damn fault for not being able to resist the urge to muck about where I should not have mucked about). Saved the data. Acquired a used MacBook, which just looks like Unix to me and I treat it as such. My last laptop before I retired from IBM was a Mac air and I loved it. I will be setting up a new Linux system one of these days.
My point: first make sure your drivers and software are available for Linux. If so, install an end-user friendly distribution that has all or most of what you need, set it up to do automatic updates, and then leave it alone. If you are curious, learn about the shell command line- it is extraordinarily powerful and useful.
A Mac is a viable alternative, and most software is available for it.
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Yeah. That minimac is the coolest thing that happened for a decade.
Cheap and kicks all sorts of behinds.
But it seems that it is a ticket to move into Apple's environment. Like that free hit you could get behind a nightclub.. to get you started.
And then it goes the opposite of of hardware freedom, which was the main and often the only reason to stick with MS... which they try to end with W11 for who knows what reason.
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The Mac Mini is quite a bit older than a decade. I haven't followed what it's grown into but initially it was basically a Macbook in a box without a screen and maybe a bit more ports and extension possibilities (there was a "Server" model that had place for 2.5" drives!). Originally Posted by emanresu
Exactly what do you need that for, when you actually want a system that just works?And then it goes the opposite of of hardware freedom
And exactly what are you talking about? The fact that Win11 requires a computer with a UEFI firmware (to install, IIUC there are ways around that, or maybe that's the SecureBoot feature)? Or is it slated to drop support (gash) for 32bit processors?which they try to end with W11 for who knows what reason.
Neither is particularly problematic. Win10 was already becoming unbearable on a maybe 7yo i3 system that would presumably still meet the minimum Win11 requirements if it hadn't been BIOS-based.
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"Exactly what do you need that for, when you actually want a system that just works?"
Every breakable part costs 50.- and I can replace it myself.
Edit: "system that just works?" is a terrible myth.
Edit2: oh. i get it now. MS is gonna merge with Google. And Google is not interested in caring about older hardware.
At this point, I am with my 4rd glass of wine and should turn off the Internet
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You're talking about repairability, not hardware freedom. Repairability in a highly integrated system like a laptop or a Mac Mini/NUC/whatever is a very limited concept anyway. Originally Posted by emanresu
My 2011 MBP which is still my main driver is on its 3rd battery, has had 3 RAM upgrades, probably 4 HD replacements (only one or two of which were because of S.M.A.R.T. errors) and I may need to replace the WiFi/BT module at some point though I've already found a compatible USB BT dongle AND an apparent solution to prevent the "BT not present after wake-from-sleep" issue that's been bothering me for a while now.
And guess what: it just works - for what I need. There's even someone who provides an up-to-date Firefox build that runs so well you'd hardly guess it officially needs a much more recent OS version.
I won't be buying new Apple computers anymore, but that's a decision I made long ago because I don't want to pay a price premium for a computer that doesn't have all the ports I want and doesn't allow me to upgrade RAM or disk space.
It's also not like the "PC" in the segment(s) Apple targets hasn't caught up with Apple in those terms.
What annoys me more is that I cannot seem to find a comparable replacement for the budget 11" laptop (Clevo brand) I bought in 2018 for maybe 350 euros and still use too. Its N3150 was never fast of course but its form factor is perfect for what I use it for, and its (matte!) screen actually surprisingly nice.
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"And exactly what are you talking about? The fact that Win11 requires a computer with a UEFI firmware (to install, IIUC there are ways around that, or maybe that's the SecureBoot feature)? Or is it slated to drop support (gash) for 32bit processors?
Neither is particularly problematic. Win10 was already becoming unbearable on a maybe 7yo i3 system that would presumably still meet the minimum Win11 requirements if it hadn't been BIOS-based."
The fact that they are dropping support for a generation of CPUs marks a shift in how they've been doing business. They're changing their business model into something... unclear. PCs were always about keeping older hardware working as well as possible, with regular updates and support. But now, it's "No support for Windows 10" (and it's not even that old), and "Windows 11 won't officially work with CPUs older than this year's models" — it's a complete U-turn."
edit: I let AI to repair my english here. Don't get upset
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"You're talking about repairability, not hardware freedom."
That 50.- piece is 50.- because there is a competition for selling the piece. I have many, many options to choose from, that is why it costs 50.-
There's the freedom.
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I volunteer teach English as a second language (ESL) through the local library system. I speak some Spanish and a bit more German, but am fluent in neither. I speak enough Spanish to help my Spanish speaking students, but I have never had German students in my class. I would never get upset with a person speaking English as their second language, maybe because by now I am used to fairly thick accents. But I always remember that not only do these folks speak their own language(s), but they often speak English much better than I can speak either of the other two languages I dabble with. Originally Posted by emanresu
"And exactly what are you talking about? The fact that Win11 requires a computer with a UEFI firmware (to install, IIUC there are ways around that, or maybe that's the SecureBoot feature)? Or is it slated to drop support (gash) for 32bit processors?
Neither is particularly problematic. Win10 was already becoming unbearable on a maybe 7yo i3 system that would presumably still meet the minimum Win11 requirements if it hadn't been BIOS-based."
The fact that they are dropping support for a generation of CPUs marks a shift in how they've been doing business. They're changing their business model into something... unclear. PCs were always about keeping older hardware working as well as possible, with regular updates and support. But now, it's "No support for Windows 10" (and it's not even that old), and "Windows 11 won't officially work with CPUs older than this year's models" — it's a complete U-turn."
edit: I let AI to repair my english here. Don't get upset
Unfortunately, the most common "complaint" (since the students aren't complaining so much as observing) I hear from my students is that native English speakers often have little patience for their efforts to communicate in English. I usually found, when in Europe, that when I tried speaking the local primary language (even though most speak English too), is that they were quite helpful and that is what I try to do.
Oh, we were talking about operating systems and platforms.
In general, the applications a person wants/needs to run (and who they need to exchange files with) will dictate what platform to use. Though it is also true that whether Mac or Windows or Linux environments have much functional overlap in that department. What we engineers did at Cisco Systems was to have two PCs - one ran the Windows email and scheduling/calendar (I forget what it was called, but I think it is bundled with Windows) and another for our engineering work with embedded systems. That one ran Linux. We were responsible for maintaining our Linux systems and IT took care of all the Windows machines. So when there was some change that would affect our Linux systems, IT would send around an email describing the change and it was up to us to do what was needed on our Linux systems.
With Wine or (even better) Crossover, many (but not all) Windows applications can run in the Linux environment. I run Tabledit in that environment, but Transcribe! is also compiled for Linux so it can run natively. I use Libre Office, which is capable of reading/writing files compatible with the Microsoft Office counterparts. I have been running Linux for so long that all of these issues are natural for me, but I can imagine it would be like drinking from the proverbial fire house for a newcomer to Linux having to learn and figure all this stuff out.
One can go into a Best Buy or Micro Center and purchase a PC with Windows and most of the software a typical person would need on a daily basis, but not all companies provide PCs with Linux installed. Dell will do so if you ask nicely, and there are some companies building Linux machines, even laptops, but they are few and far between. So for the average peron to run Linux requires a strong DIY mentality.
Prior to Linux, my experience was with Sun Solaris systems and before that, IBM 360/370 with assembler, COBOL, and Fortran. I got involved with Linux around 1990 with 0.99 on a stack of 5 1/4" floppies. I didn't go "all Linux" at home though until the mid-1990s and have never looked back. I don't play the part of "evangelist" for Linux because most people I interact with on a daily basis are decidedly non-technical, now that I am retired. Instead, I look at what the person needs to do and how s/he needs to do it, and work from there. As we used to say at Cisco "OS agnostic" or "the right tool for the job" rather than forming battle lines along OS boundaries.
Tony
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Cool.
Gonna take the plunge. Or bath.
Maybe I can ask AI to make me a missing driver.
I have to stop...
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That's more something for Über I think. Originally Posted by emanresu
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The following is just skimming the smallest surface of the subject, so those who know this stuff will quickly see much is mising in the paragraph. I would have to write several long posts to even begin to cover it. Anyway, here goes... Originally Posted by emanresu
Having written plenty of device drivers in the Linux environment, I can suggest that before you start attempting something like this, you will need to really understand the technical aspects of the device you want to communicate with. This involves what registers do what (and how to access them since many require writing the addres of the target register in order to gain access to it) to one register, interrupts, any memory mapping requirements, timing issues, etc. If a company providing hardware for which you want to write a driver doesn't already support Linux, it is likely they won't be forthcoming with that information. You can offer to sign an NDA that their attorneys can draw up, but even then, you would be fortunate to find such a company. EMU and a few video card manufacturers would do that back in the 1990s, so I was able to write drivers for some hardware, but it is always a good idea to do the due diligence to determine what support there is for whatever hardware you want to use in a Linux environment.
There is plenty of information about laptops and printers, and it thins out a bit with various other peripherals and cards.
Tony
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To me the easiest way to continue to run Windows software on a Linux machine is to just install Windows in a virtual machine. I have Windows 11 installed in a virtual machine on my desktop, using QEMU and virt-manager. It's just sitting there, though, because I still haven't found any use for any Windows software. Installation is just a matter of installing qemu and virt-manager, available in most distro repositories, running virt-manager like any other software, and clicking to add a new virtual machine, select the desired sizes for memory and storage, and then giving it the path to the Windows .iso file. It installs pretty much automatically, and runs easily enough by starting virt-manager, selecting the VM, and clicking the start button. You can also install MacOS in a virtual machine, or so I've heard, but I've never even considered doing that. Wine is something I never got along with. Never tried Crossover. I've asked a few people in person and on the internet, what I could use Windows for, and have found nothing. Every time I fire it up it insists on updating, so I let it do that, then shut it down. Linux lets you update at your leisure, and there is no need to even reboot after unless you want to. My use requirements aren't as broad as some, and everything I need to do is easily done in Linux. I'm not securely bound to any particular software packages. Others may have different needs and experiences.
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Not to mention the intricacies of Linux kernel programming (which are maybe not in constant flux, but almost so). Originally Posted by tbeltrans
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