Re: the "el lame'o" guitarists who ain't got no soul

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Just read a historic Downbeat blindfold test yesterday (current issue, flashback blindfold test). Leonard Feather quizzing Wes Montgomery.

1. Feather played a tune with Kenny Burrell on it, and Wes didn't comment on the guitarist at all.

2. Wes rated a Benson performance 3 stars (out of 5) and he did recognize that it was Benson.

3. He also recognized Howard Roberts and was quite complimentary. 4 stars.

4. Feather played a Joe Pass tune and Wes was likewise very complimentary of the playing, but didn't know Pass. 4 stars.

Very interesting.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Passalacqua is not his nickname, it's his real name.

Joe Pass (born Joseph Anthony Jacobi Passalacqua)

Joe Pass - Wikipedia

But, for what it's worth, I didn't know he was called 'Giant Joe' either. I've never heard it.

I even knew he had shortened his longer Italian real name (while I could not have told that name). Why do you think I am using a quote???? To show what i am relating too!!! To his nickname "Giant Joe"!!! OMFG ... m(

[jameslovestal]

Just read a historic Downbeat blindfold test yesterday (current issue, flashback blindfold test). Leonard Feather quizzing Wes Montgomery.

1. Feather played a tune with Kenny Burrell on it, and Wes didn't comment on the guitarist at all.

2. Wes rated a Benson performance 3 stars (out of 5) and he did recognize that it was Benson.

3. He also recognized Howard Roberts and was quite complimentary. 4 stars.

4. Feather played a Joe Pass tune and Wes was likewise very complimentary of the playing, but didn't know Pass. 4 stars.

Very interesting.

I wonder what year that was.

[StringNavigator]

Music is just sound vibration.

Actually, music is much more than just vibration.
There are passages in classical music that stir the soul merely by their composition.
Even if not played, soul jumps out at you from the staff paper and grabs you by the heart!

::

[StringNavigator]

You'll have to excuse them, the 60 year old retired hobbyists who mostly comprise this forum's userbase can't help but embarrass themselves at every opportunity.

It appears as if we're enjoying an equal-opportunity moment.

::

[StringNavigator]

One knows that a piece, or a part, is soulful when you feel that peculiar twinge in the centre of your chest, like when a loved one hurts you. or when you are wronged; or a buzz on the back of your neck and a tingling in your spine. Or whenever tears well up involuntarily. Soul is a gentle reminder within the body that our Creator left with us - a signature by the Artist.

I'd also like to add that talking about soul, without acknowledging the Creator of Soul, is embarrassing. That's why, that for many of you, this is a difficultly. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Soul is a conundrum for the spiritually defunct, for soul and spirit are one. Many have no terms of reference for that which they speak... hence the anger and frustration of the detractors.

If you haven't experienced any of this, you may not be human. You take the body given to you but do not thank the One Who Gives. That makes talking about soul difficult. Like arguing with a bot. Look out the window and think hard with your heart. Play music and try to feel it. Enjoy life and know Who to thank. Say your prayers...

Music does not compete with its Creator. God speaks through music, if one listens. Refuse to become an empty mind for the use of demons to ridicule and propagate a lost cause.

::

[Christian Miller]

I haven't worked this out yet myself - reminds me of a Laurence Olivier story.

He was doing his thing in (I think) Shakespeare & let out a blood curdling scream as he left the stage,

as he passed the Method actor (can't remember who) waiting to go on he winked, grinned & whispered 'got 'em!'

Method actor was most upset & told Olivier he was 'cheating' - Olivier said he'd read that wild mink were captured by

putting salt on the ice of frozen rivers, the mink would lick it & their tongues would freeze them to the ground, hunter gets

the Mink without any damage to the fur.

'I just think about that dear boy, much easier'

’my dear boy, why not simply [I]act?’

(can’t remember where the quote is from)

John Goodman
“Actors are there to entertain people. We're not up there to feel anything, nobody's interested. Peter O'Toole told me that when yout the script, you just perform as though you were late for a train. Don't get caught 'acting'"

otoh I like this (more serious?)
"It's what I learn from the great actors that I work with. Stillness. That's all and that's the hardest thing."
MORGAN FREEMAN

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

I wonder what year that was.

i think it was early in Benson’s career. Sometime between 65 and when Wes passed.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Maybe we’re just talking about “expression”?

[Litterick]

I wonder what year that was.

June 1967. You can read it here.

[Litterick]

Passalacqua is not his nickname, it's his real name.

Joe Pass (born Joseph Anthony Jacobi Passalacqua)

Joe Pass - Wikipedia

But, for what it's worth, I didn't know he was called 'Giant Joe' either. I've never heard it.

Joe Pass was known as “the president of bebop guitar”.

[jameslovestal]

Joe Pass was known as “the president of bebop guitar”.

BTW, thanks for that link. With regards to Joe Pass and if a guitarist can make music with "soul": Joe is sometimes criticized as lacking in soul\feeling. There is a thread or two about that at this forum.

I find this POV to be nonsense, but it does illustrate that a musician's music can have a vastly different impact on each of us.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

June 1967. You can read it here.

I didn’t see the blindfold test there. There was mention of it though.

[DawgBone]

I don't think many soulful guitarists fit that soulful category like these two legends. It's all about that soulful feeling here.

[Litterick]

I didn’t see the blindfold test there. There was mention of it though.

I should have said you can read about it there. You can read it in the current issue of DownBeat, oddly enough.

[dot75]

’my dear boy, why not simply act?

I think that's Olivier too, on learning Dustin Hoffman had stayed awake for days to 'get in character'

for the Nazi hunter movie they made, can't remember the movie name but I've had a similar dentist.

[dot75]

"It's what I learn from the great actors that I work with. Stillness. That's all and that's the hardest thing." MORGAN FREEMAN

Also Jim Hall (allegedly),

Don't just play something, sit there.

[grahambop]

I didn’t see the blindfold test there. There was mention of it though.

The Wes book by Oliver Dunskus quotes some of it:

[lawson-stone]

BTW, thanks for that link. With regards to Joe Pass and if a guitarist can make music with "soul": Joe is sometimes criticized as lacking in soul\feeling. There is a thread or two about that at this forum.

I find this POV to be nonsense, but it does illustrate that a musician's music can have a vastly different impact on each of us.

That claim always stunned me too. The very first time I heard Joe, he was playing "Stomping at Savoy" on one of the Virtuoso albums, it was playing on NPR. I heard the technical facility, for sure, but something also reached out to me and grabbed me in the chest as I heard it. I heard "I'm getting old, I won't be doing this forever, it matters to me" and went to the record shop and bought every single Joe Pass CD in the store and spent a weekend just glutting myself on his music. Then I wrote him a letter and it began a very meaningful correspondence right up to his death. He called me just a day or two before his passing and asked if I'd come to the funeral, which I did.

Nobody can tell me Joe Pass didn't have soul.

[James Haze]

Of course I know who Joe Pass was, I just did not know that nickname.

Okay, fair enough, I suppose I'm still a bit surprised that even if you had never heard that nickname before you probably should have been able to figure out who I was referring to. I mean, how many of the guys on the "greatest jazz guitarists list" are named Joe? I can only think of two, Joe Pass and Joe Diorio; and of the two, JP is more widely known.

"Everyone" on here knows who Joe Pass is, and there aren't even any other of the great jazz guitarists named Joe, besides Joe Diorio, so in that sense, it's pretty much self-explanatory.

[ragman1]

I've seen a lot of stuff, James, and I've never heard him called Giant Joe. We must move in different circles!

[jameslovestal]

I've seen a lot of stuff, James, and I've never heard him called Giant Joe. We must move in different circles!

For me Giant Joe is Joe Henderson.

[ragman1]

Jameslovestal -

Not you, the James who started the thread!

[James Haze]

Of course I know who Joe Pass was, I just did not know that nickname.

Do I really have to educate you, people, on what the term "giant" in the world of jazz means? Really? I figured you guys would at least know that already. Okay, here's the definition of a giant: In jazz, the term “giant” is used to refer to a musician who has made significant contributions to the genre and has had a lasting impact on the music. The term is often used to describe musicians who have been influential in shaping the sound of jazz and who have inspired other musicians to follow in their footsteps.

If you don't think Joe Pass 1) made a significant contribution to the genre of jazz, 2) has had a lasting impact on the music, 3) has been influential in shaping the sound of jazz guitar, especially solo jazz guitar, and 4) has inspired other musicians to follow in his footsteps; IF, you don't think that Joe Pass has done all of those things, then I would say to you, "get a clue," LOL, because his virtuoso musicianship did accomplish all of those things, in spades. The guy was a straight virtuoso with no argument, and if any of you want to argue with that, then I say you should prolly talk to a psychiatrist pronto.

I "Binged up" Joe pass just now, and the first three websites that came up, one had him listed as the 9th greatest jazz guitarist of all time, the next one, from a school of music, had him on the list of "The 50 Giants of Jazz Guitar," (which also proves that other educated jazz musicians are familiar with Joe Pass being called a giant of jazz guitar) and the third website had him listed as the 4th greatest jazz guitarist of all time. IMO, because of all that, he qualifies to be considered a giant of jazz guitar.

Do you all need me to explain to you what "Binged up" means, since you've prolly never heard it described that way before?

Wes, Joe, George, and both Pat's are some of the players on my list of jazz guitar giants. If one of you comes on here saying, "who's the giant George, or who are the Giant's Pat, "I think I might throw my coffee cup across the room. C'mon, do I have to explain everything?

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Do I really have to educate you, people, on what the term "giant" in the world of jazz means? Really? I figured you guys would at least know that already. Okay, here's the definition of a giant: In jazz, the term “giant” is used to refer to a musician who has made significant contributions to the genre and has had a lasting impact on the music. The term is often used to describe musicians who have been influential in shaping the sound of jazz and who have inspired other musicians to follow in their footsteps.

If you don't think Joe Pass 1) made a significant contribution to the genre of jazz, 2) has had a lasting impact on the music, 3) has been influential in shaping the sound of jazz guitar, especially solo jazz guitar, and 4) has inspired other musicians to follow in his footsteps; IF, you don't think that Joe Pass has done all of those things, then I would say to you, "get a clue," LOL, because his virtuoso musicianship did accomplish all of those things, in spades. The guy was a straight virtuoso with no argument, and if any of you want to argue with that, then I say you should prolly talk to a psychiatrist pronto.

I "Binged up" Joe pass just now, and the first three websites that came up, one had him listed as the 9th greatest jazz guitarist of all time, the next one, from a school of music, had him on the list of "The 50 Giants of Jazz Guitar," (which also proves that other educated jazz musicians are familiar with Joe Pass being called a giant of jazz guitar) and the third website had him listed as the 4th greatest jazz guitarist of all time. IMO, because of all that, he qualifies to be considered a giant of jazz guitar.

Do you all need me to explain to you what "Binged up" means, since you've prolly never heard it described that way before?

Wes, Joe, George, and both Pat's are some of the players on my list of jazz guitar giants. If one of you comes on here saying, "who's the giant George, or who are the Giant's Pat, "I think I might throw my coffee cup across the room. C'mon, do I have to explain everything?

"The only stupid question is the one you do not ask."

- source of quote uncertain -

Maybe you drink too much coffee ...


EDIT: BTW I remember reading a quote by a certain Joe Pass once (about 30 years ago) about learning being a life-long endeavour. (And that quote really had an impact on me.)