"Everything Is Hard On Guitar"--Matteo Mancuso

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Okay, but so what if I was? Are we not allowed an opinion? It's not a stupid opinion, I've been around music a long time. If you say we can't have opinions that is also an opinion - but it is an opinion stated as a law, a dictat, an order, and that's no good.

Mancuso's technique is obviously very good. He can play fast stuff with his fingers like a classical, flamenco or bass player. It sounds pretty impressive. Obviously he's got a lot of musical talent.

But don't you think it all has the same effect after a while? It certainly won't attract everybody, especially people who don't like loud rock stuff. One could also say it lacks maturity because he's young but that may improve as he gets older.

Actually, these are observations more than mere opinions, but that's another matter.

Lacks maturity, my foot. I'd rather listen to his solo over the grizzled veteran Beck's solo, ANY day of the week. It was very balanced.

This is why they do blindfold tests.

[frabarmus]

The lack of a signature style is much more common in the modern era where guitarists especially are encouraged to be musically diverse in their approach. They grow up on alt rock then want to play jazz too as they develop and enter university. I'd rather work a shit job than play something I don't want to.

I agree.

Also, signature style, depending on the person, might either be spontaneous and "immediately available" or it might take a long gestation, a tortuous, jumpy road, a slow, yet inexorable developement...

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Exactly. Prodigies come and go. Some last, some don't. Julian Lage was considered a prodigy, I believe, but I'm not sure how many of the other people we listen to were. I suspect not many.

Everybody comes and goes.

Do you know how easy it would be to rag on all the "young" players that have come out over the last 20 years? But that would be needlessly unkind. If they were so "great" (not merely "good") we would all see it.

Mancuso's performances speak for themselves.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Most people aren't impressed with technical displays of guitar prowess. When does the singing start and when are you going to play something my girl can dance to are more important than you blowing notes for however many minutes over a done to death jazz standard. Jazz has mostly discarded the listener in favor of instrumental self indulgence. No dancing. No vocals. Just "look at me" guitar or other instrument olympics.

Well they used to write "Clapton is God" on the subway, so that's false. He didn't get rich over his vocals, that's for sure.

What IS true is that most people are relatively superficial, pop music fans and don't listen to very much instrumental music - of any kind. Their loss, don't pay them any mind.

[kris]

You haven't read this thread properly, have you? When I replied to you I hadn't either but I just did.



Every post is an opinion, much more than mine. After a couple posts they all talk about Allan Holdsworth!

So you must give everybody here a lecture and a big red face!

TO ALL CRITICAL POSTERS: DO NOT EMBARRASS THE FORUM. IT'S EASY TO WRITE REVIEWS SITTING AT HOME IN FRONT OF A COMPUTER. WHO CARES ABOUT YOUR OBSERVATIONS AND WHAT PURPOSE DO THEY SERVE?

It's easy to write about everything... it's worse to play.
That's all I meant.
Matteo plays the guitar on a world class level.
I wish all forum users such mastery of the guitar as him.

[ragman1]

Every player sounds similar in every song they do IMO.

Absolutely, it's what distinguishes one player from another, especially the well-known ones. But the really good ones introduce enough variation to be interesting. But even individual styles evolve over time anyway, of course.

[ragman1]

Lacks maturity, my foot.

Sure, up to a point, but wait till he's 43, if he's still public by that point.

[ragman1]

Everybody comes and goes.

Do you know how easy it would be to rag on all the "young" players that have come out over the last 20 years? But that would be needlessly unkind. If they were so "great" (not merely "good") we would all see it.

Mancuso's performances speak for themselves.

I haven't ragged on him once, quite the contrary. But there are limitations to what he's doing, probably mostly age-related.

[jameslovestal]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. It's all very nice to say 'I like Wes Montgomery', for example, but does that imply one likes everything he ever did? I doubt if that's true of any artist. I like a lot of Picasso's stuff but it's not true I like everything he ever did. That would be absurd, like fanatical hero worship. It shows no discernment.

You like Scofield and Martino, at least that's what you've said, I believe. Do you like absolutely everything they ever did without question just because it's them who's playing it?

I noticed you removed "it" from the sentence related to Wes. When one says they like an artist it does NOT imply they like EVERYTHING they ever did. That would be silly, and you know it (which is why you removed the 'it' and added a question-mark).

Use of the term 'everything' is a strawman (which I'm also sure you understand).

[ragman1]

It's easy to write about everything... it's worse to play.
That's all I meant.

Of course it's easier to write than do it. But it's a fallacy to think anybody who passes some sort of critique or even praise about something has to be as good a player, dancer, artist, poet, etc, as the person they're talking about.

In fact, they don't have to be able to do the same thing themselves at all to pass a viewpoint on it. Even when some kid comes out of a cinema and says 'That was really good!' it's the same thing. It's just that those with some experience and knowledge can do it a little more insightfully. And even that may not be accurate.

[kris]

But it's not kindergarten, I hope.

[ragman1]

I missed this.

silly and you know it (which is why you removed the 'it' and added a question-mark).

Yes, when I saw it again I thought it was wrong and edited it. But apparently you're complaining that I changed it to something you agree with... most strange!

[Christian Miller]

He's got talent alright, but he also has massive skill. Massive.

If you are aware of some others like that, puhlease share!

if you are looking mostly for melodic fusion/rock shred firmly rooted in that genre and approach, I do think Matteo is up there. It’s not particularly what I’m looking for the reasons I’ve discussed, but if that’s your area of interest, I do think he’s objectively exceptional.

In terms of jazz guitarists who are out there - just from my local scene there’s for example this guy Tom Ollendorff who has been impressing/frightening me lately. He plays in a band with a couple of friends and I should really get around to seeing them. But he’s already gigged with Ari Hoenig and Ben Wendel. I’d ask him for a lesson but I’m not sure my fingers will do this.

i like his writing

proper raw audio as well, off the cuff and no edits.

It’s really stunning how he’s adapted so much c19th/c20th piano texture to the guitar in a way that seems quite unique to me.

just one example off the top of my head. It’s not a pissing contest btw, just a matter of taste. Evolving from the influence of Gilad Heckselman (a remarkable player in his own right) I think Tom has developed his thing incredibly far, is developing his own voice and is doing things on the guitar I’m not sure have been done before. I really hope you appreciate just how crazy his technique is.

He’s not using to play in your face shred, but hopefully you can understand how hard it is to do some of the things he does as well as he can do them. For him it becomes a textural, musical thing, like great piano playing. He won’t be playing any rabble rousing blues, but we have other people who can do that. I don’t need a player to do everything.

People have posted tons of great young players elsewhere.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

I haven't ragged on him once, quite the contrary. But there are limitations to what he's doing, probably mostly age-related.

Age related limitations to what he’s doing, huh? Like what?

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

if you are looking mostly for melodic fusion/rock shred firmly rooted in that genre and approach, I do think Matteo is up there. It’s not particularly what I’m looking for the reasons I’ve discussed, but if that’s your area of interest, I do think he’s objectively exceptional.

In terms of jazz guitarists who are out there - just from my local scene there’s for example this guy Tom Ollendorff who has been impressing/frightening me lately. He plays in a band with a couple of friends and I should really get around to seeing them. But he’s already gigged with Ari Hoenig and Ben Wendel. I’d ask him for a lesson but I’m not sure my fingers will do this.

proper raw audio as well, no funny stuff. It’s really stunning how he’s adapted so much c19th/c20th piano texture to the guitar in a way that seems quite unique to me.

just one example off the top of my head. It’s not a pissing contest btw, just a matter of taste. I think Tom has developed his thing incredibly far, is developing his own voice and is doing things on the guitar I’m not sure have been done before. I really hope you appreciate just how crazy his technique is. He’s not using to play on your face shred, but hopefully you can appreciate it. For him it becomes a textural, musical thing, like great piano playing.

People have posted tones of great young players elsewhere.

I was really referring to jazz virtuosity regardless of sub-genre, but whatever.

Thanks Christian, strong player for sure. What was he doing vocally on that last tune?

[James W]

just from my local scene there’s for example this guy Tom Ollendorff who has been impressing/frightening me lately. .

You and me both. I see he has a book of etudes for sale...

[Christian Miller]

I was really referring to jazz virtuosity regardless of sub-genre, but whatever.

what is jazz virtuosity?

A serious question. There’s a lot to this music obviously, and not all the challenges are to do with technical mastery.

Specific example…. Even from the point of view of something very obvious like Giant steps. playing exciting fast shred over a slowish Giant Steps (Matteo) is a different problem to playing a highly melodic and coherent solo on fast Giant Steps (Peter Bernstein.) To unfairly compare them, PB hasn’t Matteo’s chops (he has them tho, don’t be fooled) and yet he to me possesses a very high level of jazz virtuosity. The way he makes fast tempos feel relaxed so you don’t notice how fast he is playing sometimes is a classic example - what I’ve heard called the beginner-professional sound.

Thanks Christian, strong player for sure.

Well I honestly don’t think most shredder fusion guys could play this stuff. That Gradus ad Parnassum thing broke my brain just from a technical perspective. He’s kind of made these very smooth and even cross picked pianistic things his trademark. Most players avoid doing that like the plague.

[DawgBone]

Well they used to write "Clapton is God" on the subway, so that's false. He didn't get rich over his vocals, that's for sure.

What IS true is that most people are relatively superficial, pop music fans and don't listen to very much instrumental music - of any kind. Their loss, don't pay them any mind.

Clapton was an adequate singer, a damn good guitarist, and a top notch writer. No guitar picker will excel in all three areas. Each player is blessed with their own talents.

Cerebral jazz dudes aint putting cash in my tip bucket. I respect the average listener more than most musicians when it comes to opinions because they pay the bills. If I want the harshest most nasty criticisms about my playing I look inward. I think every serious musician should be their own worst critic.

[Christian Miller]

You and me both. I see he has a book of etudes for sale...

There’s also the thing of … I love that he’s gone so deep into what he does, and it really is mega, but I personally don’t actually want to do that myself. I want to go as deep into my things as he’s gone into his, if that makes sense.

His etudes are really nice though!

there’s so much stuff to work on… you can’t learn it all. Which is one reason why I feel pastiching other players is a stage you need to get through and why the elders of the New York scene for example are so well known for taking young players to task on it.

[Christian Miller]

Clapton was an adequate singer, a damn good guitarist, and a top notch writer. No guitar picker will excel in all three areas. Each player is blessed with their own talents.

Cerebral jazz dudes aint putting cash in my tip bucket. I respect the average listener more than most musicians when it comes to opinions because they pay the bills. If I want the harshest most nasty criticisms about my playing I look inward. I think every serious musician should be their own worst critic.

Well, we all know players like that haha. I think we can have a healthier relationship with it can’t we? Find things you like about your playing and try and do them more as well as being harsh and exacting and nitpicky about the details.

I think I played two or three bars of music the other night! I should work on what I played in those bars…

[DawgBone]

what is jazz virtuosity?

A serious question. There’s a lot to this music obviously, and not all the challenges are to do with technical mastery.

Probably about a third or more of the players here meet the virtuosity label since all that it means is possessing a high level of musical ability compared to your average picker.

Most of the music business has nothing to do with how talented you are unfortunately. If you can bring a hundred people to a gig no one will care if you sing off key or play sloppy solos cuz money.

[Christian Miller]

what is jazz virtuosity?

A serious question. There’s a lot to this music obviously, and not all the challenges are to do with technical mastery.

also I should say that about other musical forms too. In jazz the technical skills do get celebrated though because the music can be hard to play on a technical level.

Probably about a third or more of the players here meet the virtuosity label since all that it means is possessing a high level of musical ability compared to your average picker.

Most of the music business has nothing to do with how talented you are unfortunately. If you can bring a hundred people to a gig no one will care if you sing off key or play sloppy solos cuz money.

Im not saying every pop idol has it lol, but I would say I respect the voodoo … some performers have it even when as actual musicians they are pretty bad… craft alone does not make the art form

[DawgBone]

Well, we all know players like that haha. I think we can have a healthier relationship with it can’t we? Find things you like about your playing and try and do them more as well as being harsh and exacting and nitpicky about the details.

I think I played two or three bars of music the other night! I should work on what I played in those bars…

I'm not naturally gifted enough to cop other players licks very well so I was forced to come up with my own mostly. Still burns my ass at times when I hear guys who can peel Freddie and bb licks for a whole tune. The downside is they just sound like someone else. If that were me it'd burn my ass even more lol. Ain't no winning....

[Christian Miller]

I'm not naturally gifted enough to cop other players licks very well so I was forced to come up with my own mostly. Still burns my ass at times when I hear guys who can peel Freddie and bb licks for a whole tune. The downside is they just sound like someone else. If that were me it'd burn my ass even more lol. Ain't no winning....

The way I see it - my licks may suck, but at least they’re mine.

EDIT - I do think there’s a lot to be said for learning other peoples stuff when you are getting it together… it’s a time honoured path - not one I did either, btw - but it’s important to see it as a means to an end of learning the ropes.

[DawgBone]

The way I see it - my licks may suck, but at least they’re mine.

EDIT - I do think there’s a lot to be said for learning other peoples stuff when you are getting it together… it’s a time honoured path - not one I did either, btw - but it’s important to see it as a means to an end of learning the ropes.

I'm generalky happy with my playing but when I listen to the best recent contemporaries in the blues world it isn't good enough. In another 10 years, if I can get another couple thousand gigs in I should be pretty dangerous by then. I bet I will still feel some deficiencies tho.