How does this make you feel about your own playing?

[kris]

I like this saxophone better.

And I like both of them.

[AllanAllen]

And I like both of them.

I like the ATTYA video someone else posted. So I guess I like them both too.

[princeplanet]

I am not in the slightest troubled that someone is exceptionally good at playing an instrument at a young age. I am not bothered by those teenage virtuoso guitarists. They do their thing and I do mine. It saddens me, though, to know others feel inferior or to them or disheartened by their skill. Precocious teenagers are best avoided.

Funny, I don't actually get that demoralised listening to guitar wunderkinds, nor most mature jazz guitarists either. It's not so much the technique or speed, but more the overall conception or gestalt that horn players seem more advanced at. Great horn players are just on another level, in the clip I heard lines and phrasing that are beyond what guitarists are capable of reaching, at any age. Yeah, it's "horn envy", and those of us that suffer from it have to deal with the realisation that maybe we picked the wrong instrument. And yes, it is sad! - but only until I forget .

[CliffR]

Here's another Chris Potter ATTYA. Amazing!

[John A.]

Funny, I don't actually get that demoralised listening to guitar wunderkinds, nor most mature jazz guitarists either. It's not so much the technique or speed, but more the overall conception or gestalt that horn players seem more advanced at. Great horn players are just on another level, in the clip I heard lines and phrasing that are beyond what guitarists are capable of reaching, at any age. Yeah, it's "horn envy", and those of us that suffer from it have to deal with the realisation that maybe we picked the wrong instrument. And yes, it is sad! - but only until I forget .

Saxophone and piano allow for superfast playing in a way that most other instruments don't. I mean trumpet, bass, and vibes can't play Potter-like lines either. OTOH, saxophones can't play more chords, intervals, and counterpoint. And they have a greatly reduced palette of ridiculous facial expressions with that thing in their mouth. C'est la vie. Anyway, from a band/listener/arrangement it's a good thing that instruments impose different approaches to soloing.

To the original question, that sort of precociousness can be deceptive. Potter is an amazing player, one of the best in the game today. He got there at a remarkably early age, and it really must have been something to see him at the time. Some of the others in the "best in the game today" cohort happen to have gotten there a few years older, but they got there nonetheless. My playing falls many leagues short of the guys who get there older, too. So 14, 21, same difference in terms of how I suck compared to the people who truly don't suck. But glass half full, lemons/lemonade, etc. I'm 60 now, I figure if I keep at it (maybe bump up my practice hours a scoche) I'll get there by, oh, 115. Something to look forward to.

[princeplanet]

Saxophone and piano allow for superfast playing in a way that most other instruments don't. I mean trumpet, bass, and vibes can't play Potter-like lines either. ....

Maybe we're all playing the wrong instrument! (actually, I think I have vibes envy too...). But I hear ya John, the guitar is cool, and very much it's own thing besides being totally addictive, so it ain't all bad. I also get crest fallen when I see things where people display photographic memory, imagine having that as well as perfect pitch and the ability to play piano and sax as well as guitar... hmmm... meanwhile, back in the real world ...

[John A.]

Maybe we're all playing the wrong instrument! (actually, I think I have vibes envy too...). But I hear ya John, the guitar is cool, and very much it's own thing besides being totally addictive, so it ain't all bad. I also get crest fallen when I see things where people display photographic memory, imagine having that as well as perfect pitch and the ability to play piano and sax as well as guitar... hmmm... meanwhile, back in the real world ...

I've been around people with abilities well beyond my own in pretty much everything I do my entire life. Comes with the territory of being a human being. Makes no sense to bemoan it. Reserve resentment for things that matter, like class struggle and getting the last word in internet arguments.

[Bobby Timmons]

Well when you succeed at things, it doesn't matter to you anymore that you aren't the absolute best in the world because you've achieved something that's important to you. Like in this instance he's shredding the roof off but I'm not depressed because I feel I've reached competency in bop. Something I worked real hard at (and a theory realization gave me a boost). Now there are other things on the front burner to deal with. PS: don't forget that organ is also an instrument that can reach top speeds.

[James W]

I dislike the provocative thread title and the mindset behind it.

It doesn't make me feel anything about my own playing.

OP shouldn't forget that this meant to be art, meant to appreciated in a disinterested way, not some crude competition or indulgence in ranking.

[grahambop]

Sax players don’t look so clever when they’ve finished their solos though, they just sort of stand at the side of the stage and twiddle their thumbs, or fiddle with their reed or something. If it’s (for example) Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with 3 horns and 10-minute solos, you eventually end up with a line of redundant horn players standing at the back, like a bunch of naughty schoolboys waiting to see the headmaster.

Whereas guitarists can carry on comping during everyone else’s solos and look like they’re doing something important. Or just turn the volume down and pretend to comp, it still looks better.

[Christian Miller]

sax players don’t look so clever

fify!

[rpjazzguitar]

For chordal playing it's hard to beat piano.

For melody, it's hard to beat tenor saxophone.

Uh, why do I play guitar again? What was I thinking?

[Litterick]

Maybe we're all playing the wrong instrument!

I am happy playing guitar. I would hate to play bebop on the saxophone: too many valves, too many notes, too fast.

[John A.]

For chordal playing it's hard to beat piano.

For melody, it's hard to beat tenor saxophone.

Uh, why do I play guitar again? What was I thinking?

Try bringing a piano to the beach.

[kris]

Try bringing a piano to the beach.

[AllanAllen]

Or just turn the volume down and pretend to comp, it still looks better.

This is my favorite trick

[sgcim]

Sax players don’t look so clever when they’ve finished their solos though, they just sort of stand at the side of the stage and twiddle their thumbs, or fiddle with their reed or something. If it’s (for example) Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with 3 horns and 10-minute solos, you eventually end up with a line of redundant horn players standing at the back, like a bunch of naughty schoolboys waiting to see the headmaster.

Whereas guitarists can carry on comping during everyone else’s solos and look like they’re doing something important. Or just turn the volume down and pretend to comp, it still looks better.

Here, Here!

[wintermoon]

show me a saxophonist that will just stand there when he's not soloing and not play fills, fiddle w/the keys.
they just can't help themselves, "well I'm up here, shouldn't I be doing something?"

[rpjazzguitar]

What kind of sunscreen should I use for a nitro finish?

And, is it safe to put a nozzle on a dustbuster and vacuum the braces?

[grahambop]

show me a saxophonist that will just stand there when he's not soloing and not play fills, fiddle w/the keys.
they just can't help themselves, "well I'm up here, shouldn't I be doing something?"

As for trumpet players, they always do that disgusting thing where they open the valve, give it a shake, and disgorge a great gobbet of spit on the floor.

[grahambop]

Trombonists try and get everyone’s attention after their solo has finished, by dismantling all the plumbing and then producing a funny little bottle of something slippery which they proceed to spray onto the inner workings of their contraption.

(To be fair, this is usually more interesting for the audience than their solo was.)

[sgcim]

For chordal playing it's hard to beat piano.

For melody, it's hard to beat tenor saxophone.

Uh, why do I play guitar again? What was I thinking?

You can get the idea that sax players can play anything when you hear a guy like Potter, but there are sax players and there are SAX players.
I wrote a big band arr. that had a really hard polyrhythmic soli at a FAST tempo.
One big band that recently played it made it sound like there were five different lines going on, when the passage is written in rhythmic unison.
They tried it over and over, and it was the same thing. Finally they just gave up, and the leader, who plays lead alto gave it to me, and said "we''d need to take this home".
Then last week, I got the same piece played by a much better band, but I warned them that there was a figure at letter D that completely struck out another sax section. One cat looked at it and sightsung it and said, "Man, that's a lot of notes."

We played the chart, and when we got to letter D, it was perfect! Then the tenor player, whose favorite player is Potter, took a solo, and blew the hell out of it!
I was in heaven. I was thinking of giving up on the chart, but then I realized that the sax is just like any other instrument, there are guys who have been playing it all their lives, and still have trouble with things, and there are guys that either are more gifted, or shed more, just like any other instrument.

[mr. beaumont]

As for trumpet players, they always do that disgusting thing where they open the valve, give it a shake, and disgorge a great gobbet of spit on the floor.

Unlike the guitar player who has the courtesy to just drool onto their own instrument while they're soloing.

[princeplanet]

I dislike the provocative thread title and the mindset behind it.

It doesn't make me feel anything about my own playing.

OP shouldn't forget that this meant to be art, meant to appreciated in a disinterested way, not some crude competition or indulgence in ranking.

Nah, that's not it for me, it's not at all like I feel the need to compete with someone or something I hear that's better than I can do (although, there's probably nothing wrong with that either?...) It's more about wanting to express what I hear in my head, and being reminded that others are able to do it. So it's like competing with my own limitations when it comes to what I wish to express. It is Art, and what I've always thought good artists do all the time - beat themselves up for not being as good as they wanna be! Even a guy like Wes, doesn't strike you as a competitive guy, right? But he stayed up hours each night giving himself "headaches", probably competing against a goal he set for himself (being around piano and vibes players so much no doubt raised the bar in that respect).

Besides all that, I don't buy this idea that competition is for Sport, and not Art. Rivalry and competition has spawned most great artists - take the mid century NY scene as an example, furious competition to land the best gigs led to arguably the most fertile artistic era in human history! Sure you can have great art come from a place bereft of competitive spirit, but you're far more likely to create a leisure based hobby that way - not that there's anything wrong with that!

[princeplanet]

I dislike the provocative thread title and the mindset behind it.

...

... but yeah, it was a bit "click-baity" wasn't it? Apologies to those offended by it.