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MY 2 Cents about the Recordings today... - Carol Kaye Store - carolkaye.com | Facebook
MY 2 Cents about the Recordings today vs. what we used to do:
How they record today: Musicians are reporting that yes, they do it
"one-by-one" mostly for recordings if they use musicians, never even just
recording the full rhythm section like they started to do latter 1960s....
From the start 1957, it was horns with the rhythm together, good
"back-and-forth" in feelings and room sounds too..... and commonly not with
arranged music. You heard the demo, or the artist run through the song,
we'd quickly write down the chords and figure it out what to do to frame
the song and singer in *that* style....horns could figure out parts
quickly too. Little by little early 1960s, some arrangers could write some.
We'd do 3-4-5 tunes sometimes in 3 hours, no problem - a whole album in 6
hours, on coffee (when the rockers started to record their own things in
the 1970s - still with the help of 2-3 Studio Musicians, it took them
months to cut an album, they had more than coffee from what I
heard)..............
More and more arrangers did the chord charts with some simple lines or
just suggestive lines but they still needed the top-notch Studio Musicians
to create on top of anything written.....even with full-arranging.
but when it got down to rhythm section tracking only toward the end of the
1960s.....they all learned something else: To let the rhythm section
players create so all they had to do was "borrow" our lines, to write
further horn parts and/or string parts on then, at least part of what we
all did - not everyone did that but it was common...it sounded very
"arranged then"....many did that. We didn't mind I'd probably guess an
opinion, we were making more money than ever in our lives.....all Union.
It's too bad what is happening now....when I saw Beverly Hills Cop early
1980s...I was so upset hearing the 1-person music score, all synthesizer
and it was GOOD! I barely saw the movie as I was almost in-tears thinking
about my fellow-Studio Musicians back in LA (I was out of state then) and
was telling my friend, "that's the end of the Studio Musicians". - that
upset me for days, as the synthesizer playing was excellent.........but it
really wasn't the end tho' it slowed it all wayyy down that and going to
Europe to do scores.......people still want real sounds but they really
don't know "what's wrong with the music"....they need all the feelings of
musicians playing together, not the 1-man synthesizer feelings or the
add-on one at a time either, there's no "sharing of feelings" with all of
that, and overall wrong merging of real sounds imo........and don't forget
the phoniness of auto-tune for singers also -- 1950s and early 1960s
singers could sing in tune.....
but now?....also there's another problem today......when I had my 2nd
surgery and could play again 1994, I moved back to LA to resume some
studio work.....I was shocked to walk in a studio and see engineers
automatically put on EQ, compression etc. without even hearing the
musician! I had to re-train many an engineer keep him from doing
that...when he'd finally hear my sounds, he was amazed that I got the
right sounds immediately!... ..................
what the......everyone cut me flat with mike on the amp in the 1960s, took
it possibly 1968, on a few times 1/2 and 1/2 but always the amp won...in
movie studios it was always the amp sounds....flat. I got the right
sounds.....you hear engineers adding so much stuff, on re-issues they
almost get a kazoo sound for trumpet and popcorn sounds for
drums...yikes....where are their ears today? In live rock n roll
live-sound mixes?........
our engineers used to walk in the studios to hear us and make sure they
were faithfully recording our sounds....they knew we knew what sounds to
get............... We're talking about big bands or small combos, they
knew how to record us flat and get great sounds.......I know some later
producers are guilty of not getting the right instrument sounds too, too
much into the sliders too......and possibly why most of the public swears
it's better on vinyl....
I don't think so....I've mastered some old recordings for CD in digital
and yes, you can get those warm sounds with digital of course.........I
did with one of the toughest instruments hard to record and get the
original warm sounds of: Ray Brown's string bass, musical drum sounds,
sounds of great horns etc......but there again I know sounds, what
instruments should sound like - I'm not a rocker in sounds, played with
big bands since early 1950s........
anyway, imo the state of the business is that it's slowly coming
back....but very slowly........ Companies are very spoiled to the
cheapness of hiring one composer on one synthesizer composing and
performing the whole score of a movie in the comfort of his apt. studio
(or doing it cheap in Europe or Canada too)....so while it's improving,
it'll take more as people are really sick of phony sounds and auto-tune,
1-man scores, the one-by-one over-dubbing etc....really SICK of it
all.....they want real musicians, real orchestras, records and movie
scores the way they used to do them. The feeling that many musicians
playing together get, and the merging and different spectrum of real
instrument sounds, "TOGETHER!"
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12-29-2019 11:40 PM
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Nice perspective from the master, Er, mistress, of studio music.
I would guess things started changing in the early 60’s. The singer-songwriters wanted spare, not lush, arrangements. Then bands decided they wanted to be real bands, e.g., the Byrds, and wanted to more or less produce themselves.
Then there were the wunderkinds who did everything in the studio—Todd Rundgren, Stevie Wonder, etc.
Finally there were the synths and the instrument effects that pretty much put an end to the orchestras and horn sections.
What we see now is a more Balkanized landscape. There are some people and some groups that know what good sound is and make music the old-fashioned way. There are even some rockers that are writing string parts and horn charts.
What goes around comes around. The old days of 12-hours in a studio with coffee and cigs may be gone, but there will still be a market for fresh music made more or less live in the studio.
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She mentions something here (and elsewhere) that is often overlooked: yes, studio musicians read music astonishingly well but part of studio work entails coming up with parts that have not been written out for you.
She's playing bass here on "Hikky Burr" by Bill Cosby. Quincy Jones didn't write out a bass part for Carol. All he told her was "Play E minor."
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Now the technology has moved the studio to the "bedroom". The non-studio musician with much less talent has access to incredible technology at a low price, and can experiment, do take after take, have no worry of a budget. This has brought music recording to "the people". I think this is a wonderful think for the regular joe (like me).
Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
The super talented studio musicains are setting up studios in their houses and recording their parts often alone or with just one other person like the artist are producer.
But there is still some traditional live band recording use of the studio like this video. I find the video but they get into a lot of studio recording talk and guitar gear etc. These studio guys are really into gear.
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I wouldn’t hold that against her. We all make mistakes. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
AKA
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hah..i get u..but really..that money she earned went to her kids eatin!!!...she was a young gal with kids...alone...she burned her way as a woman, into the wrecking crew session scene by pure survival instinct & massive talent alone!! Originally Posted by AKA
shes great!!
cheers
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I don't consider that one. I think she sounds great and I always liked that song. Originally Posted by AKA
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One aspect which apparently also changed is that in much '60s pop the instrumental music was a rythmic foundation for vocal groups which supplied the hamonies.
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I spent some time as an assistant producer in a local studio in the 70's. Our first tracks would always be the rhythm section - Drums, Bass, Guitar and/or Keys if they were playing chords - and a 'reference' lead vocal, all playing together. Then we'd layer on top of that.
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but when carol began there were only a couple of tracks...the phil spector wall of sound is built on getting a tremendous amount of musicians all playing together on one track and then dubbing the vocals on another track...all 2 or 3 track stuff early on!!...sometimes there were 3 bassists on the date and 4 guitarists..drummer and percussionists...keys..strings..all playing together...why they call it the wall of sound! hah
cheers
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here's similar pic with carol at the fore
pic is generally credited as being a beach boys session...brian wilson was of course huge spector wall of sound fan...used same studio-gold star- and same wrecking crew sessioners..phil loved barney k and carol k
cheers
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Dear Sir, Originally Posted by neatomic
In future no one will be allowed to add to or subtract from a recording of one of my songs without my permission.
I had considered orchestrating The Long And Winding Road but I had decided against it. I therefore want it altered to these specifications:
1. Strings, horns, voices and all added noises to be reduced in volume.
2. Vocal and Beatle instrumentation to be brought up in volume.
3. Harp to be removed completely at the end of the song and original piano notes to be substituted.
4. Don’t ever do it again.
Signed
Paul McCartney
c.c. Phil Spector
John Eastman
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Did Carol read the bass lines to the Beach Boys songs, or make up her own? Either way, the bass lines are wonderful!
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She usually made up her own. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
But here is a case where a part was written for the bass but the music slipped off the stand during the recording and Carol improvised the rest.
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This was a pop song from 1965 (-I remember hearing it as a kid). Carol is playing guitar through the Leslie at Gold Star. She says she doesn't recall whose idea that was.
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Mark, it looks like she didn't make up the lines on Good Vibrations, but credits them to Brian Wilson:
She played them better, though
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Rob, you probably know that Carol Kaye played on an estimated 10,000 recordings, she could read or improvise
especially when the music sheets fell off the stand! Playing in the Wrecking Crew she covered for Glen Campbell
apparently calling the changes ( Glen, RIP was not a reader ) On one session backing Sinatra, he was intently watching
Frank , who asked in the control room " Who is the Fag guitar player staring at me" ? The engineers explained that
Glen was a Fan ( omitting the fact he couldn't read music, and bluffed through the parts) Carol will be 85 this year and
has played for 50 years, a phenomenal bassist.
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hah great vid...the best of the wrecking crew right there...hal blaine, carol and tommy tedesco!!..3 funny greats!!
"she was the greatest bass player in the world!"- brian wilson
cheers
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Oh, yes, Alan, I know all about her. Fantastic musician, one of the greatest session players of all time. I have nothing but respect for her, especially a lone woman in what was then a man's game. But I also respect Brian Wilson a great deal too, so it was nice to see her crediting him with the bass line to Good Vibrations.
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and remember...brian wilson had been struck by his notoriously sinister dad- murray- when he was a kid..and was left deaf in one ear!!!..he produced all that wonderful music with hearing in only one ear!
mono indeed!!
cheers
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I did not know that...
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Oh Frank, Mr. Politically Incorrect... Originally Posted by silverfoxx
We love you anyway, but...
Did he know he had a chick playing bass?
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Funny story about Glenn and Carol. They would have speed contests to see who could play "Tico Tico" faster and she always won. It seems that Leon Russell (who did a lot of session work with both of them) teased Glenn about it years after. Originally Posted by silverfoxx
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Here's a cut of Brian and Carol alone (decades after the original) doing "Good Vibrations," just piano and bass. (The bass is not loud enough on this clip to suit me but what can you do.)
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ps- and just for bass info...carol is a longtime thomastik flats user and endorser
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 01-05-2020 at 06:24 PM. Reason: add-
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