Pat Metheny on the best guitar player he has ever heard: Pasquale Grasso

[mrcee]

Yeah, and when jazzers play Beatles, that's exactly what they do, harm the songs. They stand on their own, and to me are killed by 'hipness'. Usually, these (recorded) projects (Beatle Jazz, etc.) are some producer's idea to reel a few bucks in. I guess it's good that some good players get a paying gig, but I wish they'd just let that one ride...

Joel, I saw a video somewhere of you playing a Beatles tune. I can't remember the tune but it was solo in a club and it was great. No gratuitous jazzarino stuff.

[destinytot]

But I have great admiration for those folk-infused styles and players. They're at the heart of things...

Richie Havens:

[pingu]

For me , no harm done here

He's got a nice touch huh ?

One of the most beautiful things I ever heard ...

Saw pat playing it live solo and it was
absolutely perfect too

[christianm77]

I think very much of wanton reharmonisation as 'dickhead harmony.'

Being a jazz dickhead can be a lot of fun sometimes, but it's important to know you are being a dickhead and be able to reign it in in the name of taste.

Anyway, I haven't listened to the Metheny cover yet. I'm sure it's lovely.

[Robertkoa]

This Guy sounds more like the
'Future of Jazz' to me..

You may hear a little Eric Johnson/ Holdsworth influence and a lot of Alto Sax influence...


So loosely ...Grasso would be Parker and this Guy would be Coltrane on the Guitar...

[Robertkoa]

I love Pat, but complimenting some player while at the same time minimizing others is not necessary.
every body draws from everyone else. Including Pat. Nothing wrong with that. As long as you are expressing yourself.
and that is the goal.

True in one sense...but if you are out there fighting for Market Share or trying to make money...
Most fields get very competitive and Music is extremely for $.

[pingu]

I think very much of wanton reharmonisation as 'dickhead harmony.'

Being a jazz dickhead can be a lot of fun sometimes, but it's important to know you are being a dickhead and be able to reign it in in the name of taste.

Anyway, I haven't listened to the Metheny cover yet. I'm sure it's lovely.

Please listen !

[christianm77]

This Guy sounds more like the
'Future of Jazz' to me..

You may hear a little Eric Johnson/ Holdsworth influence and a lot of Alto Sax influence...


So loosely ...Grasso would be Parker and this Guy would be Coltrane on the Guitar...

I like Kreisberg but to compare him to Coltrane is a step too far IMO, except in that he is influenced by Trane's note choices.

No one is like Trane. I sometimes think Coltrane is the most misunderstood musician in the history of jazz. He had so much soul! And yet, people think of him as a technician. The guy who comes closest to the spirit of Trane might be someone like Jimi, perhaps sometimes Derek Trucks (who has studied his music) might get close. I'm sure there are jazz guitarists who have that soul in their playing, but we are kind of a technical bunch.

Furthermore I would say Kurt Rosenwinkel is the guitarist that comes to mind when I think of post-Coltrane tenor sax influenced guitar players. Kurt I think was a big influence on Jonathan.

Kurt can be a very intense performer live, gets some of that quality in his playing.

[dasein]

I like Kreisberg but to compare him to Coltrane is a step too far IMO, except in that he is influenced by Trane's note choices.

No one is like Trane. I sometimes think Coltrane is the most misunderstood musician in the history of jazz. He had so much soul! And yet, people think of him as a technician. The guy who comes closest to the spirit of Trane might be someone like Jimi, perhaps sometimes Derek Trucks (who has studied his music) might get close. I'm sure there are jazz guitarists who have that soul in their playing, but we are kind of a technical bunch.

Furthermore I would say Kurt Rosenwinkel is the guitarist that comes to mind when I think of post-Coltrane tenor sax influenced guitar players. Kurt I think was a big influence on Jonathan.

Kurt can be a very intense performer live, gets some of that quality in his playing.

I'd say that late Jimi Hendrix (especially stuff like "Machine Gun" off Band of Gypsys), McLaughlin at his most furious, Sonny Sharrock, Tisziji Munoz, the sadly underrecorded Arthur Rhames... those are the guys that get the closest to Coltrane for me on the guitar.

[mr. beaumont]

And Sonny Greenwich!

[mrcee]

Nelson Symonds is often considered to be out of the Coltrane bag. And supposedly Coltrane wanted to use him in his band.

[unknownguitarplayer]

Jazz Musician: "Yeah, John and Paul, thanks for holding down the fort, but I'm here now. Let me re-harm that tune for you".

Civilian: "re-harm? Please no violence, remember: do no harm!"

Not to be sacrilegious, but my reaction to Herbie Hancock's album of Joni Mitchell tunes was "that music wasn't broke, and he sure didn't fix it".

[mr. beaumont]

Not to be sacrilegious, but my reaction to Herbie Hancock's album of Joni Mitchell tunes was "that music wasn't broke, and he sure didn't fix it".

That was a hit or miss record, IMHO. When it was good, it was pretty damn good, like Amelia with Luciana Souza, River with Corrine Bailey Rae (a nice surprise, she's pretty cool), or Tea Leaf Prophecy with Joni herself (that track is OUTSTANDING)

Other cuts like the ones with Leonard Cohen and Tina Turner...just did not work for me.

[fasstrack]

Joel, I saw a video somewhere of you playing a Beatles tune. I can't remember the tune but it was solo in a club and it was great. No gratuitous jazzarino stuff.

Ha ha. That was at Fat Cat, recorded in the afternoon, sans audience, by manager/friend/great guy Ben Gee. I was wearing sneakers, and that's and the fact that his iphone video capabilities suck are why the vid is so dark, and you never see my feet (no great joy to see in the first place). The song, IIRC, was In My Life.

Anyway, I decided I sounded terrible (dropped a micro-beat on one tune, I remember) and asked Ben to delete it.

Long gone from Kentucky...

[fasstrack]

I think very much of wanton reharmonisation as 'dickhead harmony.'

Being a jazz dickhead can be a lot of fun sometimes, but it's important to know you are being a dickhead and be able to reign it in in the name of taste.

Ha ha. You need more to DO, Christian. Mebbe get a girlfriend?

You can send some of those vids (to a Lonely Hearts Club or something) with you mugging while playing. Shee-it, why waste it on US?

[fasstrack]

Richie Havens:

Don't wanna brag (bullshit, yes I DO) but:

I was THERE, baby! I still have an image of Havens with his thumb on the fretboard, singing

'Freedom for your daddy's daddy...'.

Hendrix had a different band there, BTW, with a 2nd guitar player he dubbed 'Mastermind'.

What didn't make it to the film (sexist remark warning) was him picking out some young girl in the audience, pointing to her and averring:

'Hey, sweet young thing! A dirty old man's gonna lick your bicycle seat'...

He also picked out Dylan's grandmother in the crowd and said hello from the stage.

I really tripped (God, I'm DATING myself) over Canned Heat. They were the highlight for me...

[fasstrack]

For me , no harm done here

He's got a nice touch huh ?

One of the most beautiful things I ever heard ...

Saw pat playing it live solo and it was
absolutely perfect too

Yes, this is QUITE beautiful---way better than the Jobim thing b/c he kept it BEATLES.

What can I say? I love him when I love him...

[Robertkoa]

I like Kreisberg but to compare him to Coltrane is a step too far IMO, except in that he is influenced by Trane's note choices.

No one is like Trane. I sometimes think Coltrane is the most misunderstood musician in the history of jazz. He had so much soul! And yet, people think of him as a technician. The guy who comes closest to the spirit of Trane might be someone like Jimi, perhaps sometimes Derek Trucks (who has studied his music) might get close. I'm sure there are jazz guitarists who have that soul in their playing, but we are kind of a technical bunch.

Furthermore I would say Kurt Rosenwinkel is the guitarist that comes to mind when I think of post-Coltrane tenor sax influenced guitar players. Kurt I think was a big influence on Jonathan.

Kurt can be a very intense performer live, gets some of that quality in his playing.

I agree that it is a step too far ..no Guitarist has equalled Coltrane or Brecker.

I agree that Jazz Guys are a technical bunch ...but not physically...but Musically very skilled.

Guys that can't even Travis Pick like Chet Atkins but can still play beautiful chord melodies...



I did listen to Minor Blues by Rosenwinkel- brilliant creative Tune and playing- and a fairly strong Groove- not much Benson-Hendrix or Swinging Aggressive Post Benson Fusion Swing....lol.

I prefer Mike Brecker to Coltrane because Brecker would often go to ' church'....where Coltrane seemed to avoid that ....in order to go further and further I suppose.....and maybe to transcend stereotypes.

[fasstrack]

I prefer Mike Brecker to Coltrane because Brecker would often go to ' church'....where Coltrane seemed to avoid that ....in order to go further and further I suppose.....and maybe to transcend stereotypes.

That's a curious comment, though I respect your view. It's putting the cart before the horse for one thing, since Brecker (RIP) took Coltrane for a model, mined that harmonic gold, became himself. For another, Trane to me regularly 'went to church' in his playing. It became a sort of spiritual quest for him---you can hear a downright obsessive cry up in there, especially in the late period. I find it both beautiful and exhausting myself---but he definitely 'went to church'...

[christianm77]

Ha ha. You need more to DO, Christian. Mebbe get a girlfriend?

You can send some of those vids (to a Lonely Hearts Club or something) with you mugging while playing. Shee-it, why waste it on US?

It would be interesting as an experiment I suppose, but I rather think my wife might object. (Just to the mugging you understand :-))

[dasein]

I prefer Mike Brecker to Coltrane because Brecker would often go to ' church'....where Coltrane seemed to avoid that ....in order to go further and further I suppose.....and maybe to transcend stereotypes.

If by "going to church" you mean "played more Stanley Turrentine stuff" -- then yes, Brecker certainly did this more than Coltrane.

[Robertkoa]

That's a curious comment, though I respect your view. It's putting the cart before the horse for one thing, since Brecker (RIP) took Coltrane for a model, mined that harmonic gold, became himself. For another, Trane to me regularly 'went to church' in his playing. It became a sort of spiritual quest for him---you can hear a downright obsessive cry up in there, especially in the late period. I find it both beautiful and exhausting myself---but he definitely 'went to church'...

Well I am aware of the lineage though not as aware of both Players full Catalog...Possibly it is because I have heard Brecker blow on Pop type Tracks...and on that Saturday Night Theme closing ( kind of like 'Georgia' type changes ).Obviously Trane could play that Blues and Expanded Blues in his sleep and play only extensions or play tons of Variations.I remember an Interview where Brecker said Coltrane was his main influence but Brecker himself was not as good nor advanced.So again I am nowhere near as familiar as you are with these Players Repertoire as you nor would I hear as exactly what is happening as accurately as you.But on Brecker's simpler Pop stuff I can hear and play something with similar Melodic Contour...speed and Rhythms.

.Trane seems much harder to play on Guitar than Brecker..it's not the speed but the Complexity and the less obvious Melodic Cadences .
I think IF Trane had more 'Church' he would be easier to play on Guitar for many assuming the Chops are there...


And I have not heard Trane on simpler Changes except Coltrane Plays The Blues...he is fairly restrained on that Album- gotta listen again...definitely went to Church but seems like he was going for Perfection rather than Blowing on that one.I'm certainly not saying Trane could not just saying he seemed to be challenging himself ( there was no one else who could ) rather than going for the obvious kill ( lol).maybe ?And IF I heard Trane on simpler( harmonically ) changes as I have Brecker...could be the difference.

It would have been great to see Trane playing with Paul Schaffer like Brecker did and the look of fear on Schaffer's face if Trane Jammed with them had he lived longer .

What you call 'Church ' and I call 'Church' are possibly two different things.The key word in your Statement was you found some of Coltrane ' beautiful and EXHAUSTING' ...'Church ' part can be just as chops heavy , just as much Tension - but there is Release an uplifting effect ...NOT fatigueing...Trane was maybe staying way way up in the overtone series , lots of Tension..not much Release.A really really serious Guy...right ..?

I just happened to hear a Q and A with Jimmy Bruno and somebody asks him about' Giant Steps'...He mentioned a few things but what stood out to me was:'It's almost like a Test '.

So my point is : some Music aims for the Head , Some for the Heart , Some for the Pelvic Area ( especially if you are Writing or Producing for a Singer) and some Music aims for the Feet, some for Virtuoso Displays or Cutting Contests.

Edit: And also- as you said Coltrane was doing later- some Music aims toward Spiritual -Higher Mental States- God ...I left this important part out ..probably because I have never aimed this high- good Lesson for me.
Edit 2: Some Jazz Players are very physical and Musical and chops heavy...and we saw a lot of that in 70s and 80s on Guitar..now it seems like people are concentrating on doing more with it...which is hard because the early innovators took it so far..which is probably why Metheny and many are knocked out by Grasso.



You can have different Tunes for Different Effects on the Audience . some Players tend to stay in a few areas ...Someone who knew Trane might tell you ( I have no idea) that Trane may have looked down upon Dance Music and was searching for ' Higher Ground' as he saw , felt it through Meditation.

You will take longer to get ' there ' IF you use mind altering Drugs even Marijuana .


I am not talking about 'Giant Steps ' regarding the 'Church ' thing in Coltrane's Playing I am talking about other Tunes where he had time to do it and chose not to.


I wrote and sold some Jingles when I was young so I am not sensitive about my Views or my Playing or Music...lol....good training.

Church isn't exhausting - it's uplifting- has to do with the resolutions of the Lines I think- you can get really intense and chops heavy and interpolate other structures but it's easier for most to land on Tones that Trane did not ...probably.. I'm not bringing back the 60's anyway.

[christianm77]

I agree that it is a step too far ..no Guitarist has equalled Coltrane or Brecker.

I agree that Jazz Guys are a technical bunch ...but not physically...but Musically very skilled.

Guys that can't even Travis Pick like Chet Atkins but can still play beautiful chord melodies...



I did listen to Minor Blues by Rosenwinkel- brilliant creative Tune and playing- and a fairly strong Groove- not much Benson-Hendrix or Swinging Aggressive Post Benson Fusion Swing....lol.

I prefer Mike Brecker to Coltrane because Brecker would often go to ' church'....where Coltrane seemed to avoid that ....in order to go further and further I suppose.....and maybe to transcend stereotypes.

Kurt doesn't have much rhythmic drive in that sense.

As for Coltrane/brecker, well brecker might go to church, but I kind of feel trane was actually trying to talk to god. I feel very deeply about Tranes music. Brecker is merely the greatest saxophonist of his generation possibly

[WillMbCdn5]

perhaps sometimes Derek Trucks (who has studied his music) might get close. I'm sure there are jazz guitarists who have that soul in their playing, but we are kind of a technical bunch.

Christian I am curious where you see the intersection of Trucks and Coltrane? In a blues/equinox type context or something deeper?. I have been a fan of Trucks for many years and is the only performer coming through my town in many years I have felt compelled to actually want to see/experience playing. I love Coltrane when he is heavily leaning on blues vocabulary I have just never made that connection between the two. Maybe I need to absorb Coltrane more deeply.

ps - I even sometimes play slide on my 51' Super 300 it just sound "right" and very vocal.

Will

[fasstrack]

It would be interesting as an experiment I suppose, but I rather think my wife might object

Psst: Motel.

(The beauty part: if you get busted you blame ME---and she'll never catch me across the pond)...