What's the deal with Barney Kessel?

**AndyV** · 06-07-2016, 10:03 AM

According to one interview, Kessel could name the exact number of days (very few) that he missed practicing over his entire professional career. Now THAT is commitment to one's instrument.

I'm a huge BK fan so far be it from me to criticize Kessel's chops, per se. However, I do feel that at extreme tempos, you could sometimes hear the struggle in his single line playing versus that of say, Tal Farlow or Joe Pass.

**SamBooka** · 06-07-2016, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by neatomic

i have one guy to recommend..kenny burrell..he cut an lp with coltrane!

barney kessel is more of an acquired taste...nevertheless a good taste!! haha

cheers

AAAAAND Coltrane cut an album with Burrell..

The Cats IIRC .. or is that the other one..

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-07-2016, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

It was realizing (a) Kessel was a huge studio player in the 50's-60's, and (b) the pressure on studio players of that era to get it right, get it clean, and get it NOW, that led me to realize his "sloppy" playing was, essentially, an artifice, a "Pseudo-Sloppy" that was striving for a certain effect, something more aggressive. It wasn't any kind of failure or inadequacy in his chops.

I don't think anybody would find much support for criticizing Kessel's chops!

I feel he got sloppier on his later recordings. True?

**Doctor Jeff** · 06-07-2016, 11:55 AM

I agree with all the observations above.

Kessel was certainly one of the more versatile players in the jazz field--a real "jazz guitarist's guitarist". Kind of like Herb Ellis.

I know this has been posted before:

The guy had a sense of humor. And, a lot of guys can play jazz sorta like Wes or Kenny, but how many guys could do the studio thing day in day out? And play Spock's Theme on the bass?

Interesting tidbit--his wife BJ Baker was a well-known singer who had been married to Mickey Rooney in the 40's. She was the singing voice of Linda Low in the 1961 movie Flower Drum Song, coincidentally (or not?) the year she married BK.

**gtrplrfla** · 06-07-2016, 01:43 PM

As others have mentioned, Barney often delved into what we might term "contemporary pop music" with varying results, to those of us fond of his jazz material , but often, as is the case here on a solo chord melody treatment of, "People,"
his command of tasty , choice chords and their connectivity serves as a lesson to us all.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-07-2016, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I feel he got sloppier on his later recordings. True?

He was playing more modern lines but hadn't changed the old "swing" way of picking.

Barney didn't tickle the guitar, he hit the bugger.

**lawson-stone** · 06-07-2016, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I feel he got sloppier on his later recordings. True?

That's exactly the claim I've been suggesting is not true. Kessel was a consummate studio player, the equal in sessions of Howard Roberts. He was capable of exactly the same level of performance. But he chose to use as an intentional technique these slurs and sweeps and such that we lesser folk think of as "sloppy." Perhaps we just don't like it, but it wasn't, IMO, any degeneration or inadequacy in his technique.

**entresz** · 06-09-2016, 02:26 AM

One guy that people don't seem to talk about much is George Barnes, he swings just as hard as Barney does in my opinion.

**Vladan** · 06-09-2016, 03:59 AM

It's hard to dig any of "classic" jazz guitar players as is, if you are not very much into Jazz, or new at it, like you and i are. The best way to appreciate what "old masters do" is to listen to some clips by forum members then immediately listen to some "real" guy. It will be more than clear why one is considered to be "The Man", while the other is just hangin' around.

Exceptions could be Benson, Pass and Metheny. Of course, you should skip Benson's vocal soft core pop stuff (pure vomit), Metheny I'd recommend accessing through his studio work, while Pass you will certainly dig as in what a incredible player he is even if you don't like the music he produces, he will never drop on you tones of heavy out badly timed notes pretending they are something uber intellectual.

**Buzzy** · 08-15-2016, 02:31 AM

Check out Sea Miner on Barney Kessel and Friends on YouTube

Bug personally I love Barney for his harmonizing of slow standards

**DRS** · 08-28-2016, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by TheCube

I'm relatively new to jazz guitar and to jazz in general, and I've if course been looking for some guitar players with the jazz sound I like (Coltrane), and basically listening around. A lot of people seem to reccomentd Barney Kessel, but when I listen to him I just really don't dig it.

Just a bit of advice to the OP, it's not cool to start off on your first post by putting down a great player like BK. I always like that here at JGF, people tend to be more positive and not negative like all the other guitar forums. Like others have said, which guitar player do you like? I think the best entry into jazz guitar is Wes Montgomery. He did it all so well. You like Coltrane so maybe hard bop players like Pat Martino. Are you a rock player who likes flashy playing? Maybe George Benson in his CTI days. His playing of "Serbian Blue" usually shuts fast rock players up. Do like blues? Then Kenny Burrell or Grant Green is a great choice.

**smokinguit** · 08-28-2016, 11:39 AM

No matter how great and gifted a player is, you don't have to like the way he does things. We are talking about preference here. Preference cannot be rated. I don't like Pat Metheny that much, does that mean I think less of him as a musician. Hell no. I still regard him to be one of the greatest performer and innovator.

**plasticpigeon** · 08-28-2016, 05:58 PM

I listened to jazz quiet a lot for quite a while, the classics, Miles Davis, Herbiew Hancock, Cannonball etc and never seeked out guitar. One day I heard a recording of Angel by Wes Montgomery and it had a very short solo in the middle that was phenomenal. It kind of flew away with total freedom and was one of the most beautiful things I had ever heard, but the rest of the record was such middle of the road pop and I wondered if he had done any more straight ahead jazz. A couple of CDs later and I was hooked. For me and many others his playing has a special magical quality that only a very few people attain. As has been said, listen to impressions by Wes, it is a good start. Also George Benson is a bit more modern and a brilliant player. This version of so what is exceptional.

**DRS** · 08-28-2016, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by smokinguit

No matter how great and gifted a player is, you don't have to like the way he does things. We are talking about preference here. Preference cannot be rated. I don't like Pat Metheny that much, does that mean I think less of him as a musician. Hell no. I still regard him to be one of the greatest performer and innovator.

Would you start a thread saying you didn't care for him?

**lawson-stone** · 08-28-2016, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by DRS

Would you start a thread saying you didn't care for him?

I would, actually, hypothetically, because I'd be thinking (a) numerous jazz guitar people highly respect him but (b) I don't get it, so (c) maybe I need to have some folks who get him explain it to me. I used to have no time at all for Pat Metheny, but a friend kept singing his praises to me, in pretty specific terms, and one afternoon listening to him on the radio, it all sort of "clicked" for me and I became a fan of PM.

I didn't think the OP was disrespectful at all. He was just saying he didn't get it with BK and would someone maybe 'splain it to him. Nothing to get upset about.

**mr. beaumont** · 08-28-2016, 08:57 PM

Listen to what you like.

I have a ton of respect for guys like Joe Pass and Barney Kessel, but I don't listen to them at all, really. There's thousands of greats, and they don't all play guitar. Find what you love, listen ravenously.

**gator811** · 09-01-2016, 12:39 AM

Barney was a master - here he is with another master. Loose yes. Sloppy - not.

I find this mesmerising no matter how many times I see it. They are really different but both those guys are two of the most textural players on the instrument.

**Tom Painter** · 09-01-2016, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by TheCube

A lot of people seem to reccomentd Barney Kessel, but when I listen to him I just really don't dig it.

You might get a new perspective when you try to play with just bass and drums...it's an extremely difficult thing to do, there is so much space. Guys like Jim Hall "celebrated" the space (cool), Barney filled it up (hot).

You should listen to some examples of his playing throughout his career too, his early playing is distinctly different than his latter years. I prefer Barney's single line playing in his early stuff...cleaner and more bop influenced but I prefer his tone and chord-melody playing in his later years.

I can't think of anyone else before or since that made the guitar sound as huge in the guitar trio format. Try to emulate it, it's exhausting...he was so high-energy.

**AndyV** · 09-01-2016, 06:39 AM

Wow, that IS mesmerizing. I would have guessed that Hall and Kessel would be incompatible in their approach but here, Hall becomes a little more earthy while Kessel loses many of his usual bluesy inflections in favor of a more compositional approach mirroring Hall.

**TheGrandWazoo** · 09-01-2016, 06:51 AM

It's about context...

Once you understand his role in the history of jazz guitar you will suddenly realize he was truly one of the greats!

**christianm77** · 09-01-2016, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

It's about context...

Once you understand his role in the history of jazz guitar you will suddenly realize he was truly one of the greats!

I disagree.... I think his playing still stands up today. It all depends on what you are listening out for, really.

**Dave70** · 09-01-2016, 09:07 AM

That Soaring album is particularly nice, love it!

**Drumbler** · 09-01-2016, 10:11 AM

Kessel's success proves his worth.

He's no Taylor Swift though (that's a joke).

**fasstrack** · 09-01-2016, 10:19 AM

Mixed feelings here. I like the earlier stuff best. Good bluesman and swinger. He fit into Oscar's group nicely. Did a good job accompanying Julie London, too.

He never really got bebop, and sounds a bit dated---but good---playing with Bird. He also grew to be a bit heavy-handed and more than a bit corny to these ears in later years, and his touch turned harsher. His attempts at keeping up with more modern developments in jazz in the '60s didn't work too well.

But earlier on he had a lot of feeling, balls, and a fat sound. The chords would jump out at you. I'll go with that...